Wisconsin S2k

yes more than once. and guess what. the 13.6 or 13.7 the new GT runs will likewise hardly be representative of what happens on the street. in most of your argument you seem to want to take the best times of the mustang vs average times in the S2000. why is that? you think every GT owner out there is a great driver? hell, the 2 new 05 GT's that were running at GLD the last time I went couldn't do better than 14.2 and 14.4.

and get walked by auto vert GT's? lol. unless ford has improved their auto transmissions drastically, i'm not even going to give that a response. not to mention the auto is a fat pig at over 3600 pounds. and the new GT is about 240 pounds heavier than the old GT.

as for your experience regarding the 99-04 GT. between the two, the S2000 has the advantage. it pulls on the GT from just about any speed, and unless the GT gets a great launch, the S2000 will pull and pass the GT by the finish line. this is equal drivers. this argument was quite a heated debate a long time ago on this forum. finally a chicago owner who was a member here came up to GLD to race me in his 99 mustang GT 5 speed to settle it.

we raced 14 times at the track. now i was the better driver, so more often than not, I was the one who won. but the GT was a bit better off the line from the torque, so every single race was the same. he'd get 2-3 cars on me on the launch. i'd reel him in every damn time and pass him before the finish, winning by about a car length. on our best runs our times were fairly even with mine being slightly better (barely a tenth on our closest races), but most notably, my trap was ALWAYS higher. 101-102 vs his 97-98. this was a driver who had 13.8's stock in his GT. that night neither of us broke better than 14.0. the weather and track conditions just seemed to be the factor for that. equal drivers, sorry, the 99-04 GT loses.

Wisconsin S2k

yeah but modding a domestic is like taking candy from a baby.

the S2000 will never get the kind of gains they get n/a. and if one of those perfectly placed mods on the S2000 isn't either a special intake with an impeller, or doesn't involve an ECU, you'll be hard pressed to gain much at all.

wannabuy

If you go for power to weigth ratio in a race with mods it goes to the S. Mild turbo kit on an S for around 8k and then add a supercharger to a mustang for 8k. Power out of the S2000 is an easy 350whp with 8lbs, good tune and a gt35R. Give the Mustang the same set-up as the Saleen with 415whp and weigh them in. The S comes out with 7.8lbs per hp and the oh so heavy Stang comes in at 8.4578.

Now just for giggles. Curb weight of the stang is 3510 with most actual weights coming in at around 3690. We all know the S comes in at 2809. Now if you go with flywheel hp instead of actual whp the stang comes in at 11.7 and the S comes in at 11.6875. Now to me it looks real close to a numbers game of who has the best driver.

I for one never had any problems spanking a pre-05 and now that I will be turboed,,well I have no need to worry about much of anything but maybe a viper on steroids.

Good luck with all the flames on this one but the math sais it can happen. So most likely somewhere out there a stang owner is getting the best of an S and a S is getting the better of a stang.


-chris

no_really

I'm not one to mag race, but there are a number of people on here who love quoting mag numbers as if they mean something, so here ya go:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...0&page_number=4

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...8&page_number=4

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_...ang/index2.html

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_...ang/index2.html

And for the entirely subjective:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=8921

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...2&page_number=2

The 5-speed auto in the 2005 Mustang GT is geared significantly different than the previous 4-speed, so I don't see how assumptions based on the old auto tranny apply to the new one. We are talking a 60hp difference here. The weight difference is not negligible, but neither is the power difference. The outgoing GT had only 20 hp on the S2000, and by all accounts it is a drivers race. Add another 240 pounds, and 40 hp, and you still expect the same performance out of the car? Please. In a 1/4 mile, ten pounds of weight loss roughly equates to one horsepower. Worked the other way (not that it is anything more than a very rough approximation in the first place) you are adding 40 hp and effectively taking away 24. Net gain on performance on the strip and street. Anyone want to tell me how you expect a car which has been shown to negate any perceived power/weight advantage can somehow not see any advantage from a power gain?

Almost all my races against S2000's in my old Mustang GT 5-speed coupe were from a roll, and I pulled decisively every time - power trumps weight from a roll. The only loss was when I had a decided traction disadvantage off the launch to the S2000, effectively meaning I didn't start the race for 20-30 feet, while the S2000 got going from the line, with me losing by roughly a car and a half. No-one is saying the S2000 is slow, but face reality - a well-driven 300 hp Mustang GT is more than a match for a well-driven S2000 these days.

You can beat all the cars you want in an impromptu street race, but when push comes to shove, the S2000 will ET higher and trap lower than the 300 hp 05 Mustang GT. It is flattering how the car is constantly quoted as a benchmark by S2000 fans, but the Mustang GT just drags better than the Honda. And it doesn't handle too bad either (even if it would kill some of you to admit it).

Wisconsin S2k

99-04GT<S2000<05 GT

that's my stance on it. each car has a narrow margin over/under the next.

driver's race is likely the key here, but the S2000 has the advantage over the 99-04 GT and the 05 GT certainly has the advantage over the S2000.

given equal drivers the 05 will win, the S2000 2nd, and the 99-04 GT 3rd.

you may have raced poor drivers in S2000's, even from a roll. but from any speed above 40mph, a stock S2000 will pull on a stock GT 99-04 ALL DAY. your experience differs, but me and the other guy proved it. we ran 14 times, and every race i pulled. even on races where he got a BETTER launch, and ran a BETTER ET, I still pulled the entire time and trapped higher than him.

nalVle

if i were betting on a series of 1/4 mile runs btw the 05 GT and the S2000, chances are about 75% of the time id put money on the 05GT. HOWEVER, we were talking about "how low we've seen each car get in the 1/4 mile", in which case theyre about the same.
-Chris

wannabuy

Power to weight doesn't lie and the cars are very equally matched either way.

YellowS2kPwr

Then, there's always gearing... traction.... drag.... and a ton of other different things that affect performance.

jasonw

Also, if you just look at the WHP : weight ratio it should tip the scales in the S2000's favor. We are talking about a Ford tranny here...

brockLT1

and tremec tranny's suck?????