S2000 vs E46M3 (not standing start)
12-22-2001, 11:36 AM
#32
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M3 costs less? - A used one, I've seen used M3s still going around for up to 30-40 grand.
M3 will go 100,000 miles without blowing? - We don't know how that would compare to the S2000 since nobody's had an S2000 go over 100,000 miles yet.
"The M3 was determined to be the best handling car in it's day. " - For it's day, although I don't know what other cars it competed with in terms of handling.
I have friends with M3s and S2000s and they're both very different cars...I can't even really compare the two. Based what I have witnessed on speed (watching people race MANY TIMES), they seem to be very similar. Handling, I'll have to look at different track times for that, but seeing that the S2000 is significantly lighter, I'd have to say it's more nimble.
btw, you're adding a lot of stuff S2000 owners don't find important in their daily driving needs.
M3 will go 100,000 miles without blowing? - We don't know how that would compare to the S2000 since nobody's had an S2000 go over 100,000 miles yet.
"The M3 was determined to be the best handling car in it's day. " - For it's day, although I don't know what other cars it competed with in terms of handling.
I have friends with M3s and S2000s and they're both very different cars...I can't even really compare the two. Based what I have witnessed on speed (watching people race MANY TIMES), they seem to be very similar. Handling, I'll have to look at different track times for that, but seeing that the S2000 is significantly lighter, I'd have to say it's more nimble.
btw, you're adding a lot of stuff S2000 owners don't find important in their daily driving needs.
12-22-2001, 11:58 AM
#33
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30-40k? Plenty of mid 20's M3 around.
100k on an S2k? Fair enough; we don't know how they will fare. I think this was Stan's point.
Handling? The M3 won a handling shootout from Car and Driver against a P-car, NSX, and vette, among others. The prelude, Honda's best performing car at the time, was thrown into the comparo by C&D for shits and giggles. Of course, it got wasted. I'll dig up the article if you want. How's the S2k stack up against the NSX in the handling dept? The mags applauded the E36 M3 as a handling champion during the entirety of its 5 year production run. Now, I'm not saying that the mags are God's words, but their unequivocal applause for the E36 shows a noticable, positive trend in how the M3 was viewed by the enthusiast community.
The S2k is more nimble. For sure. It's a force on the autocross circuit, laying waste to the competition in SCCA. I know of a half a dozen M3 guys that compete at the national level that are chomping at the bit next year, when the s2000 gets moved up a class. However, nimble low speed handling on an auto-x does not translate into domination on a high speed road course. To be sure, the S2000 is awesome on a road course, but I'd pick an M3 any day.
100k on an S2k? Fair enough; we don't know how they will fare. I think this was Stan's point.
Handling? The M3 won a handling shootout from Car and Driver against a P-car, NSX, and vette, among others. The prelude, Honda's best performing car at the time, was thrown into the comparo by C&D for shits and giggles. Of course, it got wasted. I'll dig up the article if you want. How's the S2k stack up against the NSX in the handling dept? The mags applauded the E36 M3 as a handling champion during the entirety of its 5 year production run. Now, I'm not saying that the mags are God's words, but their unequivocal applause for the E36 shows a noticable, positive trend in how the M3 was viewed by the enthusiast community.
The S2k is more nimble. For sure. It's a force on the autocross circuit, laying waste to the competition in SCCA. I know of a half a dozen M3 guys that compete at the national level that are chomping at the bit next year, when the s2000 gets moved up a class. However, nimble low speed handling on an auto-x does not translate into domination on a high speed road course. To be sure, the S2000 is awesome on a road course, but I'd pick an M3 any day.
12-23-2001, 04:40 AM
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>>true, that's why there's the NSX for more power.<<
I'll sic my big brother on you? Well I suppose that the most recent BMW exotic, the McLaren F1 could show up....
In any event, the NSX just might have a little trouble stomping an E46 M3.
Stan
I'll sic my big brother on you? Well I suppose that the most recent BMW exotic, the McLaren F1 could show up....
In any event, the NSX just might have a little trouble stomping an E46 M3.
Stan
12-23-2001, 05:05 AM
#36
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At the local track, TWS, the fast NSX guys have pull off 2:00 minute laps. Guess how fast the fast M3 guys go? 1:58 to 2:04
In any event, I didn't realize the S2k was so expensive to own, since you've got to buy an NSX to accompany it.
In any event, I didn't realize the S2k was so expensive to own, since you've got to buy an NSX to accompany it.
12-23-2001, 05:19 AM
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hey guys,
If you are going to compare stuff like trunk space with an S2000 and an M3, why don't you compare stuff like performance and build quality with a CONVERTIBLE E36M3. I will not talk trash about M3s. My father used to have one and I think it was an awesome car. Also the new E46s are just plain sick. But, come on people, I think any car that your gonna compare an S2000 to should be a drop top. Especially if you are going to compare more than just hardcore perfomance. Even if your M3 is 10 times as fast as my S2000 I defy you to follow me down a curvy country road, sun setting, about 75-80 degree, strees blowing, etc. etc. and have nearly as much fun as me with a hard top M3. Just a thought. Argueing on the internet is like running the special olympics...even if you win you're still retarded. Hope that doesn't offend anybody. L8er and happy motoring
If you are going to compare stuff like trunk space with an S2000 and an M3, why don't you compare stuff like performance and build quality with a CONVERTIBLE E36M3. I will not talk trash about M3s. My father used to have one and I think it was an awesome car. Also the new E46s are just plain sick. But, come on people, I think any car that your gonna compare an S2000 to should be a drop top. Especially if you are going to compare more than just hardcore perfomance. Even if your M3 is 10 times as fast as my S2000 I defy you to follow me down a curvy country road, sun setting, about 75-80 degree, strees blowing, etc. etc. and have nearly as much fun as me with a hard top M3. Just a thought. Argueing on the internet is like running the special olympics...even if you win you're still retarded. Hope that doesn't offend anybody. L8er and happy motoring
12-23-2001, 08:20 AM
#38
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The E36 M3 is a great car, there is no doubt about it, I consider it even overall to the s2k if you take everything into account, however when you talk purely performance stock for stock, the fact that the s2000 weighs considerably less cannot be forgotten. While the M3 mostly makes up for the weight in accelleration it will not make it up in braking, nimbleness and overall grip. It needs fatter tires to be equal because IT WEIGHS MORE.
Grip is just plain physics, if you assume that suspension design is the same if both cars have the same rubber on the floor, the car that weighs less will grip better and resist breaking loose...
Oh and as for ease of driving and driving pleasure, that is subjective and cannot be quoted in an objective fashion, sorry Stan
...
I will not go as far as saying the s2k is superior from a pure performance standpoint, but in my eyes I would take an s2000 over a regular E36 any day, but that is me and my list of priorities is different... An M3 lighweight, now that is a different story and I would have to reserve judment to when and IF I ever drive one.
Oh and BTW, I have no doubt that given certain conditions, an s2k can hang not far behind an E46 the same way an S2k can hang not far behind a LS1 or a C5.
All cars that are within one second of each other in accelleration can beat each other or hang close on a limited distance race. Anyone who does not agree with this statement shows inexperience in the area
Grip is just plain physics, if you assume that suspension design is the same if both cars have the same rubber on the floor, the car that weighs less will grip better and resist breaking loose...
Oh and as for ease of driving and driving pleasure, that is subjective and cannot be quoted in an objective fashion, sorry Stan
...I will not go as far as saying the s2k is superior from a pure performance standpoint, but in my eyes I would take an s2000 over a regular E36 any day, but that is me and my list of priorities is different... An M3 lighweight, now that is a different story and I would have to reserve judment to when and IF I ever drive one.
Oh and BTW, I have no doubt that given certain conditions, an s2k can hang not far behind an E46 the same way an S2k can hang not far behind a LS1 or a C5.
All cars that are within one second of each other in accelleration can beat each other or hang close on a limited distance race. Anyone who does not agree with this statement shows inexperience in the area
12-23-2001, 11:43 AM
#39
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Some points:
* If you want to compare only other convertibles to the S2k, maybe you should make it only designed-as-convertibles with two seats. Like Boxters and MR2s. But not M3s, Vettes, 911s, etc, etc.
* The S2k would be faster and even better handling if it was a hardtop. Less weight / more unibody stiffness.
* Sev I don't think that I measured driving pleasure or whatever objectively. You can't do that. Handling is NOT big skid pad and slalom figues. Some great handling cars have mediocre limits. You have to be able to consistently control the beast and not feel terrified about it such that you find yourself backing off. You shouldn't have a heart attack if you hit a normal mid corner bump. Steering feel is super duper important. That is not an S2K strength according to the press BTW. Humans respond to the rate of change of the car's movements. We have to be able to correct as needed and be assured that there won't be a side effect. Etc. Every single time. That's why in my example I mentioned a string of laps. A car that can pull a hot lap out of nowhere might get listed as a track test winner, but might not be a good bet when you need to do many laps in a row. Another clue is if you get tired eaiser in a particular car after accomplishing a series of laps. Grip is not the same as handling either. You can have either without the other but both at the same time = smile time.
Stan
* If you want to compare only other convertibles to the S2k, maybe you should make it only designed-as-convertibles with two seats. Like Boxters and MR2s. But not M3s, Vettes, 911s, etc, etc.
* The S2k would be faster and even better handling if it was a hardtop. Less weight / more unibody stiffness.
* Sev I don't think that I measured driving pleasure or whatever objectively. You can't do that. Handling is NOT big skid pad and slalom figues. Some great handling cars have mediocre limits. You have to be able to consistently control the beast and not feel terrified about it such that you find yourself backing off. You shouldn't have a heart attack if you hit a normal mid corner bump. Steering feel is super duper important. That is not an S2K strength according to the press BTW. Humans respond to the rate of change of the car's movements. We have to be able to correct as needed and be assured that there won't be a side effect. Etc. Every single time. That's why in my example I mentioned a string of laps. A car that can pull a hot lap out of nowhere might get listed as a track test winner, but might not be a good bet when you need to do many laps in a row. Another clue is if you get tired eaiser in a particular car after accomplishing a series of laps. Grip is not the same as handling either. You can have either without the other but both at the same time = smile time.
Stan
