S2000 vs E46M3 (not standing start)
12-21-2001, 09:34 AM
#24
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No. Tuan has the same one as me. E36. Much slower than the new E46. I wish we could meet at the same road off Beltway. Now that was fun......
Yeah...that shit was fun. But you know, I don't like that road all that much. I perfer the usual 3 lane feeder roads. That black top is really sticky and we have to launch higher RPM's than usual, or our cars will bog below vtec. Happened to me a couple times, until I launched at 7K (6.5K is bad enough for the diff.). I bet your M3's love that surface though!
12-21-2001, 08:14 PM
#27
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Originally posted by maddogtx
VTEC,
Thx. I may be a bimmer man, but you are pure rice with your fantasy stories. No way did you lose by only 1.5 cars from a roll in 1st gear. I will dust you from a 1st gear roll, and I've lost by 2-3 cars to the new M3. Of course, I'm not stock, but not far from stock either.
VTEC,
Thx. I may be a bimmer man, but you are pure rice with your fantasy stories. No way did you lose by only 1.5 cars from a roll in 1st gear. I will dust you from a 1st gear roll, and I've lost by 2-3 cars to the new M3. Of course, I'm not stock, but not far from stock either.
12-22-2001, 05:04 AM
#28
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"Stock for stock, an S2000 is a superior performing car over the E36 M3."
A stock S2k is probably roughly comparable to a stock E36 M3.
EXCEPT that:
* The S2k costs more.
* The M3 was determined to be the best handling car in it's day.
* The M3 doesn't lose it if you hit a bump mid corner when driving hard.
* It has a better ride, useable trunk and a back seat. Relaxed on the highway.
* You can add 20-50 more HP for from 200 to 2500 dollars. The S2k is all done for the most part. There are also several 2nd/3rd generation turbo and SC kits.
* You can lower and firm up the M3 suspension. The s2k gets even twitchier when lowered. The M3 stays controllable and gains even higher limits. The S2k seems to lose handling in the cases I have read about. An M3 will also have higher limits if you slap on SO-2s. An M3 can also take larger wheels up front on the later staggered wheel version to cut understeer or wider F/R on the earlier models.
* I suspect that the average car enthusiast who is also an above average driver can go faster over a number of laps in the M3 since it has better at the limit handling and superior steering feel. Remember that 95% of all sporty car drivers think they are in the top 1%. Many are mistaken!!
* If you accelerate in one gear you can gauge accel without driver skill and kamakazi (sp) launches. 60-80 MPH in an s2k takes 4.1 seconds, identical to a stock E30 M3 with the 2.3 litre four cyl.. In an m3 it takes 3.6 seconds, for example. And the S2k is in VTEC the whole time!
* The M3 can definitely be driven hard for well over 100,000 miles without blowing. Not sure what the limit is, built cars are still racking up the miles. The first m3 with the high rev 4 popper routinely breaks 150-200k miles despite lots of hard use. I know of cars that ara tracked heavily that are on year 6 of that type of hard life.
* No need to double or triple downshift if you need to pass or go up a hill.
* M3 clutches last a LONG time.
* M3 launch at around 2500 RPMs or so. No drivetrain risk compared to a 7500 launch.
* M3s drive just fine in the snow if you change the tires, and especially if it's a 96 or later.
* The M3 is safer in a crash.
Stan
A stock S2k is probably roughly comparable to a stock E36 M3.
EXCEPT that:
* The S2k costs more.
* The M3 was determined to be the best handling car in it's day.
* The M3 doesn't lose it if you hit a bump mid corner when driving hard.
* It has a better ride, useable trunk and a back seat. Relaxed on the highway.
* You can add 20-50 more HP for from 200 to 2500 dollars. The S2k is all done for the most part. There are also several 2nd/3rd generation turbo and SC kits.
* You can lower and firm up the M3 suspension. The s2k gets even twitchier when lowered. The M3 stays controllable and gains even higher limits. The S2k seems to lose handling in the cases I have read about. An M3 will also have higher limits if you slap on SO-2s. An M3 can also take larger wheels up front on the later staggered wheel version to cut understeer or wider F/R on the earlier models.
* I suspect that the average car enthusiast who is also an above average driver can go faster over a number of laps in the M3 since it has better at the limit handling and superior steering feel. Remember that 95% of all sporty car drivers think they are in the top 1%. Many are mistaken!!
* If you accelerate in one gear you can gauge accel without driver skill and kamakazi (sp) launches. 60-80 MPH in an s2k takes 4.1 seconds, identical to a stock E30 M3 with the 2.3 litre four cyl.. In an m3 it takes 3.6 seconds, for example. And the S2k is in VTEC the whole time!
* The M3 can definitely be driven hard for well over 100,000 miles without blowing. Not sure what the limit is, built cars are still racking up the miles. The first m3 with the high rev 4 popper routinely breaks 150-200k miles despite lots of hard use. I know of cars that ara tracked heavily that are on year 6 of that type of hard life.
* No need to double or triple downshift if you need to pass or go up a hill.
* M3 clutches last a LONG time.
* M3 launch at around 2500 RPMs or so. No drivetrain risk compared to a 7500 launch.
* M3s drive just fine in the snow if you change the tires, and especially if it's a 96 or later.
* The M3 is safer in a crash.
Stan
12-22-2001, 06:18 AM
#29
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Stan, you hit the nail on the head. I ask anyone here that doubts Stan's assessment to speak up.
VTEC, I cannot understand where you came up with your statement that stock for stock the s2000 is superior. Having significant miles on both cars, you are dead wrong. The S2k does some things far better, the M3 other things better. I have 12k miles in my M3, in just about every venue possible including the track. About the same seat time in my S2000.
Stock for stock, my M3 was roughly comparable to my S2000. However, given the fact that E36 M3's have been around for 6 years, and most owners have replaced aging OE parts with upgraded aftermarket units, there is a huge aftermarket for the E36's, it seems every M3 I come across around town or at the track has some performance add-ons.
In my case, I spent $400 for a CAI and pulley. Result? 232.4 rwhp and 234.3 lb ft of tq. At least a 30 rwhp and 100 lb ft of tq advantage. That's significant. Now, these are not Z06 numbers to be sure, but I invite anyone to go for a run with me. Indeed, I posted in another thread that I walked from a black/black S2000 a few weeks ago. And yes, he dropped his clutch and created the massive, violent wheelspin that an S2000 must create to get respectable straight line times.
When I bought the M3, I tested it back-to-back with my s2000 (swapping drivers back and forth). Pretty much a draw in straight line acceleration. Now, I'd walk away from one.
In the handling department, the stock M3 was far from agile as compared to the S2k. However, at the limit, it was predictable, and forgiving. And best of all, very communicative. More so than the S2000. One almost feels invincible as the car does exactly what you want it to do, and the car can be pitched into a balanced 4 wheel drift at track out. The s2k, on the other hand, is a chore to drive at the limit.
I spent $1300 on a full coilover package. It now is so buttoned down, and the limits are so much higher than stock, it matches or bests the s2k's ulitimate handling limits, with one big advantage: it maintained the balance, poise and forgiveness of the stock suspension. Well, actually, I gave up a bit of the foregiveness, but it's still there in spades.
Vtec, how many miles do you have in an E36? Also, what mags are you referring to? When I bought my S2000, I read every review I could find. I never saw even a passing reference to the E36 M3, nor would I expect to see one given the different market segments that the cars are intended for, and the fact that the E36 has been out of production for some time now.
VTEC, I cannot understand where you came up with your statement that stock for stock the s2000 is superior. Having significant miles on both cars, you are dead wrong. The S2k does some things far better, the M3 other things better. I have 12k miles in my M3, in just about every venue possible including the track. About the same seat time in my S2000.
Stock for stock, my M3 was roughly comparable to my S2000. However, given the fact that E36 M3's have been around for 6 years, and most owners have replaced aging OE parts with upgraded aftermarket units, there is a huge aftermarket for the E36's, it seems every M3 I come across around town or at the track has some performance add-ons.
In my case, I spent $400 for a CAI and pulley. Result? 232.4 rwhp and 234.3 lb ft of tq. At least a 30 rwhp and 100 lb ft of tq advantage. That's significant. Now, these are not Z06 numbers to be sure, but I invite anyone to go for a run with me. Indeed, I posted in another thread that I walked from a black/black S2000 a few weeks ago. And yes, he dropped his clutch and created the massive, violent wheelspin that an S2000 must create to get respectable straight line times.
When I bought the M3, I tested it back-to-back with my s2000 (swapping drivers back and forth). Pretty much a draw in straight line acceleration. Now, I'd walk away from one.
In the handling department, the stock M3 was far from agile as compared to the S2k. However, at the limit, it was predictable, and forgiving. And best of all, very communicative. More so than the S2000. One almost feels invincible as the car does exactly what you want it to do, and the car can be pitched into a balanced 4 wheel drift at track out. The s2k, on the other hand, is a chore to drive at the limit.
I spent $1300 on a full coilover package. It now is so buttoned down, and the limits are so much higher than stock, it matches or bests the s2k's ulitimate handling limits, with one big advantage: it maintained the balance, poise and forgiveness of the stock suspension. Well, actually, I gave up a bit of the foregiveness, but it's still there in spades.
Vtec, how many miles do you have in an E36? Also, what mags are you referring to? When I bought my S2000, I read every review I could find. I never saw even a passing reference to the E36 M3, nor would I expect to see one given the different market segments that the cars are intended for, and the fact that the E36 has been out of production for some time now.
12-22-2001, 10:51 AM
#30
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VTEC,
You moron. He was not WOT. There is less skill involved in a straight line race from a roll. Thus, assuming he's an average driver, he will hit all his gears, meanwhile walking your ass. Sounds to me like you need to get off that crack pipe ricer.
Still dont understand? Bring your pink slips, and I'll race you anytime......
You moron. He was not WOT. There is less skill involved in a straight line race from a roll. Thus, assuming he's an average driver, he will hit all his gears, meanwhile walking your ass. Sounds to me like you need to get off that crack pipe ricer.
Still dont understand? Bring your pink slips, and I'll race you anytime......