S2000, EVO, and skyline
10-19-2005, 02:30 PM
#51
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oh yeah, and yellowsmartguy,, didnt you see the cat delete dyno,, 4 whp all the way acrossed the board. so whats that, a 6-8 crank hp gain. yeah, thats only ONE of the things i have. 
laters 
laters
10-19-2005, 03:04 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by S2oooNvegas,Oct 19 2005, 01:58 PM
now your gettin somewhere.hope many questions will be asked on this subject. people learning is good. if you can, email, or query as much info as you can from boyd butler, or paul haney. well, i could name 100 names. but these guys can teach you something about how effective, and to what importance the exhaust side is to the entire aspirated cycle.
build a 1000 hp small block, then have it breathe through holes the size of nickels. VE is tricky.
hehehee. laters daveword(s) of the day: port velocity.
latesOnce again. It's been done, and there is no magical thing you can do to change what others have already tried.
10-19-2005, 03:10 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by hackmac87,Oct 19 2005, 02:28 PM
see now your getting somewhere. your right as for the car being close too tapped.but there are very few n/a engines that achive high 90% ve and i dont think s2k is not one of them.i dont know the exact specs on the ve rating but it is probably in the low 90s.to really figure that out i would need a head and flow bench too get flow # and see what cylinder filling would look like.
as for the v2 i wont argue that due to that was one car and i only saw one dyno sheet for it.but i will say i think it is the best intake for the car.
[QUOTE]as for the gasket yeah we watched everything temps,pressures,flow,ect...
over 3 days of tests. we thought the gasket was bulls%^& and wouldnt do anything but it did. i wont post #s becuase they varied,but once the car was at full operation the gasket show
10-19-2005, 04:14 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Oct 19 2005, 03:04 PM
Talk about improving exhaust flow and exhaust characteristics all you want. It's already been attempted and done, and much greater minds and money than you have done the calculations and the conclusions that there is simply not much to improve on. In fact, you can calculate the CFM needed for optimal exhaust flow of our engine, and the stock exhaust is just a few CFM short of ideal. However, it was indicated this was done to assist the scavaging effect.
Once again. It's been done, and there is no magical thing you can do to change what others have already tried.
Once again. It's been done, and there is no magical thing you can do to change what others have already tried.
have you even spoke with them about their research. they are making over 300 HP with stock block k20s. and are working on an s2000 package as we speak. flow is everything. our exhaust can be improved upon massively. look, or better yet, PM some of the folk who have dynoed 14-20 wheel from a single exhaust bolt on, with no cat. and more than that with an ECU. ask J's, tell them theres no room for improvement, or talk to spoon. they will crack up.
cmon man, too much info out there for you guys to say stuff like this. just because i dont work for spoon, toda, or J's doesnt mean that what i say is invalid. look at the gains from just a J's header, with the rest of the car stock. wicked. anyways. ive said enough. you get the point.
lates p.s why dont some of you embark on a bolt on quest before you speak. some on here have posted, have ZERO experience. just try it, you put a V2 on your car, and race a good friend before and after, youll go SHIT!! lol.
later daveed
10-19-2005, 04:26 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by S2oooNvegas,Oct 19 2005, 04:28 PM
F20C usa. 240 HP
F20C euro/JDM 250 HP.
now if they added a crank, went up 200 cc more, and tad larger cams, dont you think after 4 years of s2k, and 40 years of winning races, they were able to pull out 10 more HP??? i hope so. my guess, by shawns proof, and driving both cars, is stock F22 is at 260 HP. thats not that far fetched.
so im guessing even if i ONLY bolted on 10 HP (yeah right) theres more trick than just purchased parts here. id be CONSERVATIVELY making 270. so i guessed it at 275 hp.
see how im thinking, im not a nutjob. LOL. but hey, think what you will. i have backed up how fast i am, but it hasnt been enough. so now im gonna do as you guys ask, and spend my time proving it. for sure vids are comin, dynos, its gonna be a while. and sea level track times.. its gonna be a few. i run high 13s in vegas, and every car that runs here is 7 tenths off. ive wasted no ones time, only negative folk. so if you come out here for silverstate, ill blow your doors off then we can talk. lates dave
F20C euro/JDM 250 HP.
now if they added a crank, went up 200 cc more, and tad larger cams, dont you think after 4 years of s2k, and 40 years of winning races, they were able to pull out 10 more HP??? i hope so. my guess, by shawns proof, and driving both cars, is stock F22 is at 260 HP. thats not that far fetched.
so im guessing even if i ONLY bolted on 10 HP (yeah right) theres more trick than just purchased parts here. id be CONSERVATIVELY making 270. so i guessed it at 275 hp.
see how im thinking, im not a nutjob. LOL. but hey, think what you will. i have backed up how fast i am, but it hasnt been enough. so now im gonna do as you guys ask, and spend my time proving it. for sure vids are comin, dynos, its gonna be a while. and sea level track times.. its gonna be a few. i run high 13s in vegas, and every car that runs here is 7 tenths off.
ive wasted no ones time, only negative folk. so if you come out here for silverstate, ill blow your doors off then we can talk. lates daveAnd you can't take what the JDM S2k makes and then apply it to the ap2 as if they built it off the JDM. The ap2 F22 has the same restrictions as the ap1 F22 USDM, so you have to start from there.
And I know everyone likes to mention Shawn's numbers a lot, but unfortunately, it's simply not enough of a sample size, and not enough direct comparison. Not to mention it's a dynapack which does not account for wheel losses.
And considering the F22 AP2 was just redone with the new specs, it's 237hp. So whatever that comes out to be, then so be it. Does the AP2 make more power? of course. I'd say it's maybe 10-15 more crank hp.
and once again you come back to these "more trick than just purchased parts" yet you offer no proof in any way. you can go ahead and think whatever tricks you want to think, but with the stock ECU, you can't magically go to 110% VE. Talk all the tricks you want. bottom line is, n/a on this ECU there is no more VE to be gained than about 5%.
and no you haven't backed up how fast you are, because we still have no dyno, nor video and timeslip of you at the track. if you've run high 13's in vegas, then where are the timeslips? why have you never mentioned you had high 13 timeslips before? or are you referring to the "gtech" runs you had.
also, you following up all your posts with "well come out here and i'll blow your doors off" gets old. it's the same thing as "my daddy will beat up your daddy" mentality. no one cares.
10-19-2005, 04:28 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Oct 19 2005, 02:21 PM
if you'd like to calculate VE, here is the equations you'll need.
First calculate the air density for the temperature taken at the intake/throttle body:
t1 = Temperature of air for a known density (32 �F @ 0.0808 lb/ft3)
t2 = Temperature of the intake air measured by the intake air temperature sensor (�R)
d1 = Density of air for a known temperature (0.0808 lb/ft3 @ 32 �F)
d2 = Density of the intake air (lb/ft3)
You will now need MAF (lb/min), however, our cars do not have a Mass Air Flow sensor. You can use the MAP sensor and engine RPM to look up MAF on a Speed Density table. Or you can use the conversion. I looked it up, but I'll find the conversion equation if I can and post it.
Once you have the MAF, use this equation here:
AVF = Actual volumetric flow rate (ft3/minute)
MFK = Mass flow rate (lb/minute)
d2 = Density of air for the intake air (lb/ft3)
After this, calculate Theoretical Air Flow.
rpm = maximum design rpm
TAF = Theoretical air flow (ft3/minute)
VE = Volumetric efficiency (100% theoretical)
ED = Engine displacement (in3)
ES = Engine stroke (2 for a four stroke engine)
C = Conversion factor from in3 to ft3
example:
And lastly, calculate VE:
VE = Volumetric Efficiency (%)
AVF = Actual volumetric flow rate (ft3/minute)
TAF = Theoretical air flow rate (ft3/minute)
First calculate the air density for the temperature taken at the intake/throttle body:
t1 = Temperature of air for a known density (32 �F @ 0.0808 lb/ft3)
t2 = Temperature of the intake air measured by the intake air temperature sensor (�R)
d1 = Density of air for a known temperature (0.0808 lb/ft3 @ 32 �F)
d2 = Density of the intake air (lb/ft3)
You will now need MAF (lb/min), however, our cars do not have a Mass Air Flow sensor. You can use the MAP sensor and engine RPM to look up MAF on a Speed Density table. Or you can use the conversion. I looked it up, but I'll find the conversion equation if I can and post it.
Once you have the MAF, use this equation here:
AVF = Actual volumetric flow rate (ft3/minute)
MFK = Mass flow rate (lb/minute)
d2 = Density of air for the intake air (lb/ft3)
After this, calculate Theoretical Air Flow.
rpm = maximum design rpm
TAF = Theoretical air flow (ft3/minute)
VE = Volumetric efficiency (100% theoretical)
ED = Engine displacement (in3)
ES = Engine stroke (2 for a four stroke engine)
C = Conversion factor from in3 to ft3
example:
And lastly, calculate VE:
VE = Volumetric Efficiency (%)
AVF = Actual volumetric flow rate (ft3/minute)
TAF = Theoretical air flow rate (ft3/minute)
10-19-2005, 04:45 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Oct 19 2005, 04:26 PM
also, you following up all your posts with "well come out here and i'll blow your doors off" gets old. it's the same thing as "my daddy will beat up your daddy" mentality. no one cares.
and yes people do care, only white trash would say my daddy vs your daddy. i dont know about you, but im not white trash. where i come from thats called challenge. just like the Z's did. and i drove out there and met the challenge. sorry that from your point of view its not that way. trust me, if i had more time off, and more cash we would settle this on your home turf in the good ole cheese state. and while we were there, wed handle the chicago boys too.
smoked. either way, this is a much better discussion than past ones. people are being civil.
all im arguing for, is beleivers. not the folk who every other comment out of their mouth is, welp, cant be done. nope, cant be done, hell no,, cant be done.
you can be on the naysayers side, ill be on the dreamers side. sound good. works for me. i strive for the top. little things count.
hasta.
10-19-2005, 04:52 PM
#58
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s2000nvegas...
i ran 13.97 bone stock. maybe i have a magical 270 s2k too!? no i dont...the ap1/2 both make 240 hp. with bolt ons(i/h/e) the might make on a good day 250 hp. i am interested with hytech talk, i have seen what they do with k's.
i ran 13.97 bone stock. maybe i have a magical 270 s2k too!? no i dont...the ap1/2 both make 240 hp. with bolt ons(i/h/e) the might make on a good day 250 hp. i am interested with hytech talk, i have seen what they do with k's.
10-19-2005, 05:44 PM
#59
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well lets start here, almost every single jdm sports car IS under rated. this is a known fact. over there they make 250hp and thats what is advertized in the ap1. our ap2 got better cams and displacment increase and more tuning.now if i bought cams and a bore increase and only got 10hp over my old 250hp id be pissed. 
that said what s2knvegas claims arent far fetched.actually quite understandable.275 sounds high id say more like 270ish. calculations can get amazing results,but nothing beats good ole' tunin.
that said what s2knvegas claims arent far fetched.actually quite understandable.275 sounds high id say more like 270ish. calculations can get amazing results,but nothing beats good ole' tunin.
10-19-2005, 06:46 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by S2oooNvegas,Oct 19 2005, 06:14 PM
LOL. id like you to go ahead and call and speak with anyone at hytech, and tell them what you just said. they will laugh till they hang up.
have you even spoke with them about their research. they are making over 300 HP with stock block k20s.
have you even spoke with them about their research. they are making over 300 HP with stock block k20s.
and are working on an s2000 package as we speak.
flow is everything. our exhaust can be improved upon massively.
once again, you're acting as if this is something new and you're the first to try this, when in fact, it's been done over and over and over.
look, or better yet, PM some of the folk who have dynoed 14-20 wheel from a single exhaust bolt on, with no cat.
[QUOTE]ask J's, tell them theres no room for improvement, or talk to spoon. they will crack up.