hackmac87

the stock ecu will tune its self for best operating conditions and when suplied with superior air flow, cooling, oil and other items. 5 years or so ago a test was done by a university( not sure which just remember reading it) an engine was run with all factory supplied fluids,exhuast and airbox etc... they changed every fluid to what they had tested to be the best including fuel(which was pump gas) and installed an flow stack.that particular engine dynoed consistently 20-40hp! more in the entire operation range on the same ecu tuning.i try and find this artical for you to read because you probably dont beleive it cause i didnt until i statred to understand why 10 small changes can make 1 big difference. and as for my referance to "tuning", i dont consider tuning to be just euc programming it is knowledge of knowing how things work and how to get more performance with certain modifications rather than others.

Wisconsin S2k

[QUOTE=hackmac87,Oct 18 2005, 09:29 PM] the stock ecu will tune its self for best operating conditions

hackmac87

actually it was a 4cyl. 2.1l fuel injected and most any vehicle can free up that power.yes like you said the s2000 is at the edge of its airflow but has so many small areas that will remain nameless do to me making money from do these things that drastically improve performance.

not sure if many people know this but AEM stopped posting how much power the s2000 V2 intake was producing becasue they got flammed even though it was dynoing huge increases!

also the hondata gasket you refered to earlier was shown to drop intake air temp 60f or more degress at all times. so with that said as a general guage in auto industry for every 10 degree celsius drop density increases about 3% and for every 3% of density increase about 6 whp is produced. a 60f drop is equal to 15.5c and that said should be about 10whp.granted gearing ect has differing effects but they are tiny. now most ap2 are dynoing about 238whp from what i saw stock on a dyno with 3 different cars.if daves car made that 238 +10 gasket+10 intake+5 better fluids and 3 for the delete.hes done a few other things that i wont discuss but just from that puts him at the 266whp and those are conservitive #s. which in turn validate many of his claims plus his lightening efforts put him at a much lower weight.

S2oooNvegas

this has turned into a very good discussion. i wish more of them ended this way when wis/hack and myself were involved.
something may come of this. instead if a post closing session.

something in particular may help all of you to catch up here. this has gone fast pace, in a hurry.
george speaks of VE. volumetric efficiency. if you dont know what that is, then do some research and come back and read all this again.
FACT: honda built the F22, in search of a more torquey engine, because of so many complaints about the cars take off performance. the AP1 was a strictly track machine, and did very well at that. the AP2 is the same car with an attempt to be a tad easier to live in daily, and perform better at the lights.
now, to the fact. the F22 has a few new parts, crankshaft,flywheel,rods,and cams. at this moment my research has shown me thats all. without tearing into F20 and F22 side by side, im not gonna speculate any of the other stuff is different. herein lies the interesting part. the engine got larger, yet the intake, and exhaust manifolds did not. not even the ports got any larger. or the throttle body. this engine is begging for more air, both on the hot and cold sides. also with a larger crankshaft, and yet the same oil pan, and windage effects, it suffers from HP loss do to windage. these are age old racer tricks. to any of you who belive there is no more HP to be squeezed out of this setup.. please. get hondas rod out of your throat.
this is about as far as im gonna go. im already too deep into some secrets to feel comfy. know this, i doubt ill run into an NA s2000 that will keep up, anytime in the near future. so have fun, and have faith in your s2k, it is one hell of a machine.

dave

kayvan_pour

WTF are you talking about?

YellowS2kPwr

He's insane. They dyno @ 200 whp while my AP1 dynoed @ 204

joeking1978

ha ha...


I haven't seen bigger "foot in mouth" disease since the last time Steve C. posted!!


Careful guys- his ego appears to relatively fragile. when your young and learning the ways of "life" the hard way... on your own... much more time, effort, sweat, ect. are spilled into discovering what works... and so far- what he has posted is what he has learned... and to tell him otherwise discredits everything he has done with cars until this point. This is as simple as telling everyone the world was round- when once thought to be flat...

hackmac- quite claiming that "these mods to not be named" (what is this- M. Night Shyamalan's: The Village... "the creatures of the woods that we shall not speak of..." ) are the source to your buddies success. You preach infront of the choir- many of these members have been around longer then myself and have owned and modified this vehicle the the greatest extant of its capabilities... and all have discovered what you will as well: a Naturally aspirated car will not react so significantly when not FI!

If there really IS some mysterious new techinique- why are YOU so special to have found it? What genious lays deep in your thoughts which is yet undiscovered by MIT? Have you thought about going up there and finishing random math problems on a chalk board while posing as a school Janitor yet...? You're claiming that you've found the fountain of power that many before you- of higher IQ's who have grown and studied the physics associated with such engineering, could not?



yeah... right.

Wisconsin S2k

And once again, you're acting as if you have discovered all these magical little secrets that nobody even knows about. And what I'm telling you is they simply aren't there. Every other owner before you that's tried this, including people like UL and others agree that there is not much n/a power to be gained, ESPECIALLY on the stock ECU. So think all you want that you've got "secrets" when you really have nothing. Dyno shops, owners, and bigger companies with R&D dollars have tried it, and simply don't get much gains. That has been dyno proven. You're very much like Dave, in the sense that you want to spew all of this stuff that goes against what every other person here has learned about the car, including the greater minds on this site (who know WAY MORE than you do), and then you want us to believe it without any proof whatsoever. It simply isn't gonna happen.

Countless numbers of people have dyno'd with the AEM V2 intake, and they don't gain much. AEM stopped posting the dyno numbers for it because they were inflated and incorrect.

now here is something I know quite a bit about and have researched in detail myself. And rather than just spew out numbers and say "this is what it is" i'll provide you with proof.

While you're figures are correct on the horsepower gains (about every 10 degree drop in fahrenheit results in roughly .75-1% increase in power), you're incorrect on his 60 degree temp drop. I've never seen measurements that high on an S2000 for the hondata mod.

So once again, you're telling us this is what he has, however, did you actually measure this, or is this just more of you spewing out figures you won't back up?

Wisconsin S2k

Actually Dave, I have done the research, and the VE on the F20 to the F22 remained almost identical. So yes, honda did increase some air flow somewhere.

And once again, you talk as if you have all these hidden secrets, when it has all been tired before. This is not some new territory and you're not the first to think this way. It's been done, tested, and DYNO proven that there simply is no magical setup or bolt ons that will release this "hidden" power.

Wisconsin S2k

he's talking about dyno'ing on a dynapack where wheel losses are not accounted for. sure it's great for tuning, but when discussing and comparing, you need dynojet numbers. though even those figures are bloated, considering most dynapack dynos put the ap2 at about 220-225whp. 238whp is on a dyno that is likely reading higher than most others.