Road&Track s2000 vs 350z roadster
07-04-2003, 08:51 PM
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Who is going to track their convertible?
Me for one. There's a lot of 'trackers' on this forum so I guess a fair few people 'track their convertibles'. Porsche-club has a fair few Boxsters tracring as well so there's more people 'tracking their convertibles'. People track mostly "sports-cars" ... it does not matter if they have a roof or not.
S is a convertible by default, but it was tested as a hardtop in the past (remember the bickering you guys had over it when it was compared to the Z and among other cars and came out what LAST?). I've just seen the interior of the S and it was so basic and limited. Not only that, but the dashboard is an exact copy of the Toyota Sprinter Trueno. Truely the S was designed with lightweight in mind and at a stupidly high price.
If you said this in the 1st place you would not hear a peap from me. Though you specifically said "S2000 lacks power and acceleration". That is all I was 'clearing up' ... nothing else. I'm not implying that the 350Z (convertible or not) is not godd car, I am not saying that the S2000 is perfect or for everyone, just pointing out that it has enough power and acceleration to return better numbers than the 350Z. That is all. Not claiming that the S2000 will beat the 350Z in a drag every single time nor trat it will beat it on the track every time ... just saying that what you said is like "the pot calling the kettle black" - as the 350Z does not have any more acceleration than the S2000.
When it comes to racing, the S has to be in an ideal situation to get the most out of it. That's not racing, that's called racing for the handicap.
Are you serious? Do you mean being in the "right gear" as the 'ideal situation"? What else does the S2000 need to be in an 'ideal situation'? I would have thought that being in the right gear is part of racing, and if you're not, then you're not racing. Do you dissagree with that (and are you implying that races should take place in 'non ideal' gear)?
I'm not sure what else do you think the S2000 needs to be in an 'optimum' and hence 'ideal' situation .... if you think that there more to it than being in the right gear then you're mistaken.
If the S is so fast and strong, why don't you enter it into a rally or an endurance race? Why? Because it wasn't design for that?
Ermm, get your facts straight. S2000 finished 10th outright in the recent Nurburgring 24 hour which had more than 150 entrants. How's that for an endurance race? And what about 5th outright in Sandown 500 (2001) where it came ahead of a lot of the exotics like Ferraris, 911 GT3s and Vipers. That's just 2 high-profile races.
Looks to me like there are S2000 racing (even in endurance racing) and their doing very well. I guess, that is exactly what it was designed for ... if you said that the S2000 was not designed for comfort, or for long trips interstate then I'd agree with you. But if the S2000 is designed for one thing, that one thing is track-work. That is where the S2000 excels and part of the reason why I keep on going to the track with it.
Me for one. There's a lot of 'trackers' on this forum so I guess a fair few people 'track their convertibles'. Porsche-club has a fair few Boxsters tracring as well so there's more people 'tracking their convertibles'. People track mostly "sports-cars" ... it does not matter if they have a roof or not.
S is a convertible by default, but it was tested as a hardtop in the past (remember the bickering you guys had over it when it was compared to the Z and among other cars and came out what LAST?). I've just seen the interior of the S and it was so basic and limited. Not only that, but the dashboard is an exact copy of the Toyota Sprinter Trueno. Truely the S was designed with lightweight in mind and at a stupidly high price.
If you said this in the 1st place you would not hear a peap from me. Though you specifically said "S2000 lacks power and acceleration". That is all I was 'clearing up' ... nothing else. I'm not implying that the 350Z (convertible or not) is not godd car, I am not saying that the S2000 is perfect or for everyone, just pointing out that it has enough power and acceleration to return better numbers than the 350Z. That is all. Not claiming that the S2000 will beat the 350Z in a drag every single time nor trat it will beat it on the track every time ... just saying that what you said is like "the pot calling the kettle black" - as the 350Z does not have any more acceleration than the S2000.
When it comes to racing, the S has to be in an ideal situation to get the most out of it. That's not racing, that's called racing for the handicap.
Are you serious? Do you mean being in the "right gear" as the 'ideal situation"? What else does the S2000 need to be in an 'ideal situation'? I would have thought that being in the right gear is part of racing, and if you're not, then you're not racing. Do you dissagree with that (and are you implying that races should take place in 'non ideal' gear)?
I'm not sure what else do you think the S2000 needs to be in an 'optimum' and hence 'ideal' situation .... if you think that there more to it than being in the right gear then you're mistaken.
If the S is so fast and strong, why don't you enter it into a rally or an endurance race? Why? Because it wasn't design for that?
Ermm, get your facts straight. S2000 finished 10th outright in the recent Nurburgring 24 hour which had more than 150 entrants. How's that for an endurance race? And what about 5th outright in Sandown 500 (2001) where it came ahead of a lot of the exotics like Ferraris, 911 GT3s and Vipers. That's just 2 high-profile races.
Looks to me like there are S2000 racing (even in endurance racing) and their doing very well. I guess, that is exactly what it was designed for ... if you said that the S2000 was not designed for comfort, or for long trips interstate then I'd agree with you. But if the S2000 is designed for one thing, that one thing is track-work. That is where the S2000 excels and part of the reason why I keep on going to the track with it.
07-05-2003, 12:33 AM
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Me for one. There's a lot of 'trackers' on this forum so I guess a fair few people 'track their convertibles'. Porsche-club has a fair few Boxsters tracring as well so there's more people 'tracking their convertibles'. People track mostly "sports-cars" ... it does not matter if they have a roof or not.
You misunderstood me, I was talking about the Z convertible. I have rarely, if ever, seen the older Z convertible on the track. Why track it if there is already a coupe for that.
If you said this in the 1st place you would not hear a peap from me. Though you specifically said "S2000 lacks power and acceleration". That is all I was 'clearing up' ... nothing else. I'm not implying that the 350Z (convertible or not) is not godd car, I am not saying that the S2000 is perfect or for everyone, just pointing out that it has enough power and acceleration to return better numbers than the 350Z. That is all. Not claiming that the S2000 will beat the 350Z in a drag every single time nor trat it will beat it on the track every time ... just saying that what you said is like "the pot calling the kettle black" - as the 350Z does not have any more acceleration than the S2000.
True. I say you are almost right if you want to compare stock for stock. Forget the Z convertible, compare the first Z, the coupe. The comparison has already been done, the verdict is out, the Z is faster, better in most areas, time for an upgrade for the S. I'm certain that the new S, if there are some minor upgrades, it will be faster, more tossable. Someone here once said that it took Nissan 3-4 years to build a better car than the S. What a jackass. I've tired of hearing this Z vs S
comparison. If the S is not a drag car, then why do people post drag times or street encounters?
Are you serious? Do you mean being in the "right gear" as the 'ideal situation"? What else does the S2000 need to be in an 'ideal situation'? I would have thought that being in the right gear is part of racing, and if you're not, then you're not racing. Do you dissagree with that (and are you implying that races should take place in 'non ideal' gear)?
I'm not sure what else do you think the S2000 needs to be in an 'optimum' and hence 'ideal' situation .... if you think that there more to it than being in the right gear then you're mistaken.
David, I think we had a discussion like this before. Remember rolling from 5mph and how it was a disadvantage for the S? Bring what you've brung is what everybody says. There are no excuses. If you can't reach 200kmh faster than the other car, then you can't. I'm not talking about being in the right gears, I'm just talking about racing in any situation.
Ermm, get your facts straight. S2000 finished 10th outright in the recent Nurburgring 24 hour which had more than 150 entrants. How's that for an endurance race? And what about 5th outright in Sandown 500 (2001) where it came ahead of a lot of the exotics like Ferraris, 911 GT3s and Vipers. That's just 2 high-profile races.
Looks to me like there are S2000 racing (even in endurance racing) and their doing very well. I guess, that is exactly what it was designed for ... if you said that the S2000 was not designed for comfort, or for long trips interstate then I'd agree with you. But if the S2000 is designed for one thing, that one thing is track-work. That is where the S2000 excels and part of the reason why I keep on going to the track with it.
OK, I just saw that and I am impressed. Not only was the S 10th or 11th place, it also beat the almighty GTR!!! Impossible!!! Explain that to me David, was it the car or was it the driver???
07-05-2003, 03:45 AM
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Hey Shiri,
You misunderstood me, I was talking about the Z convertible.
Oh, OK ... I see. Still, If I owned a Z-convertible then I'd track it. I like cars that perfrom well on the track ... though, you're right, I'd probably never get the Z-convertible if I could get the Z-coupe instead.
I say you are almost right if you want to compare stock for stock. Forget the Z convertible, compare the first Z, the coupe. The comparison has already been done, the verdict is out, the Z is faster, better in most areas...
Fine, compare Z-coupe, if you like, but this article compared the convertible and hence this tread. Also, the above may be your opinion, but not mine. Z may be 'better in most areas' for you, but not for everyone. It's not more suited to the track, it does not have a 'sportier' engine, it does not have a quicker (and better) bearbox, it is not lighter, it does not feel more like a go-cart, it is not smaller and it does not fit anywhere as 'snug' as the S2000. What I just listed may not be for you, but it sure is for a lot of people out there.
Look at it from my point of view, I want an engine that likes to rev (as in a Ferarri), I want a very responsive car/chasis, I want a no compromise sport-car and I want to 'wear' the car. And anything that I don't want is just dead-weight (ie. traction control, electic seat etc). Which car would you chose for me if considering my requirements?
Last of all, I (personaly) don't care what a car will do when it's modded. Modified cars are not for me - I like to buy a car and not change much on it ... if I'm looking for more then I just buy a different car; one that suits my need better. So saying that one is easier to midify does not hold water with me ... I'm sure it is an importnt factor for some people, but not for me.
also beat the almighty GTR!!! Impossible!!! Explain that to me David, was it the car or was it the driver???
You know how these things go - you need a good car and an even better driver. Though, this was a 24 hour race and that is also about reliability, efficienty (of fuel and tyres) etc. Either way, S2000 in 'capable hands' can win races .... check out Open-track-challenge (that's 7 tracks in 7 days or something like that) and one S2000 won the 'unmodified class' and the other came 3rd outrights (but that one had a Turbo I think).
David, I think we had a discussion like this before. Remember rolling from 5mph and how it was a disadvantage for the S?
Yes, we probably did, and the 5mph rolling-start IS a dissadvantage for the S2000. Still, why create a 'scenario' that suits the Z .... isn't that exactly what you're arguing against? What kind of race happens from 5mph? You either go from standstill or you go run a rolling start (and that's usually at higher speed then 5mph). Why 'create' a scenario like that? From stand-still the S2000 does just fine when you do a 'hard launch'. That's what a race is.
If you want to win races from 5mph roll, then the S2000 is not the car for you and neither is the 350Z. The Z4 3.0 kicks the 350Z's butt from 5mph like there is ot tomorrow (and even more so the S2000's butt). Hey, a 'measly' family sedan like Holden Commodore SS (5.7L V8) will beat both the cars from 5mph roll. Would you chose that over the 350Z (since that is your preference)?
Bring what you've brung is what everybody says. There are no excuses. If you can't reach 200kmh faster than the other car, then you can't. I'm not talking about being in the right gears, I'm just talking about racing in any situation.
If you're talking about racing in 'any situation' then why bring up the 5mph roll? That is one of very few situations that does not suit the S2000. None here claims that the S2000 is the best car for every situation. I can pick a situation that does not suit the 350Z - like 30mph roll ... that does not make necesarily mean that the 350Z is a 'slow' car. It just means that at 30mph (ie 50mph) you are too going too fast to start the race in the 1st gear in, but a touch too low to do any favours to the 350Z's 2nd gear. All I just did a pick an artificial scenario like you with the 5mph roll. Just bacause one car is not suited to that one 'artificial' scenario does not mean that that one car is inferior. It's all about what you're after .... 350Z may be what you're after, but it's not for everyone (just like the S2000).
Now remember that I'm not opposed to the 350Z, and neither am I denying that it has plenty of desirable qualities. I'm just pointing out that S2000 has plenty of it's own, and for some of us they outweight what the 350Z has to offer.
You misunderstood me, I was talking about the Z convertible.
Oh, OK ... I see. Still, If I owned a Z-convertible then I'd track it. I like cars that perfrom well on the track ... though, you're right, I'd probably never get the Z-convertible if I could get the Z-coupe instead.
I say you are almost right if you want to compare stock for stock. Forget the Z convertible, compare the first Z, the coupe. The comparison has already been done, the verdict is out, the Z is faster, better in most areas...
Fine, compare Z-coupe, if you like, but this article compared the convertible and hence this tread. Also, the above may be your opinion, but not mine. Z may be 'better in most areas' for you, but not for everyone. It's not more suited to the track, it does not have a 'sportier' engine, it does not have a quicker (and better) bearbox, it is not lighter, it does not feel more like a go-cart, it is not smaller and it does not fit anywhere as 'snug' as the S2000. What I just listed may not be for you, but it sure is for a lot of people out there.
Look at it from my point of view, I want an engine that likes to rev (as in a Ferarri), I want a very responsive car/chasis, I want a no compromise sport-car and I want to 'wear' the car. And anything that I don't want is just dead-weight (ie. traction control, electic seat etc). Which car would you chose for me if considering my requirements?
Last of all, I (personaly) don't care what a car will do when it's modded. Modified cars are not for me - I like to buy a car and not change much on it ... if I'm looking for more then I just buy a different car; one that suits my need better. So saying that one is easier to midify does not hold water with me ... I'm sure it is an importnt factor for some people, but not for me.
also beat the almighty GTR!!! Impossible!!! Explain that to me David, was it the car or was it the driver???
You know how these things go - you need a good car and an even better driver. Though, this was a 24 hour race and that is also about reliability, efficienty (of fuel and tyres) etc. Either way, S2000 in 'capable hands' can win races .... check out Open-track-challenge (that's 7 tracks in 7 days or something like that) and one S2000 won the 'unmodified class' and the other came 3rd outrights (but that one had a Turbo I think).
David, I think we had a discussion like this before. Remember rolling from 5mph and how it was a disadvantage for the S?
Yes, we probably did, and the 5mph rolling-start IS a dissadvantage for the S2000. Still, why create a 'scenario' that suits the Z .... isn't that exactly what you're arguing against? What kind of race happens from 5mph? You either go from standstill or you go run a rolling start (and that's usually at higher speed then 5mph). Why 'create' a scenario like that? From stand-still the S2000 does just fine when you do a 'hard launch'. That's what a race is.
If you want to win races from 5mph roll, then the S2000 is not the car for you and neither is the 350Z. The Z4 3.0 kicks the 350Z's butt from 5mph like there is ot tomorrow (and even more so the S2000's butt). Hey, a 'measly' family sedan like Holden Commodore SS (5.7L V8) will beat both the cars from 5mph roll. Would you chose that over the 350Z (since that is your preference)?
Bring what you've brung is what everybody says. There are no excuses. If you can't reach 200kmh faster than the other car, then you can't. I'm not talking about being in the right gears, I'm just talking about racing in any situation.
If you're talking about racing in 'any situation' then why bring up the 5mph roll? That is one of very few situations that does not suit the S2000. None here claims that the S2000 is the best car for every situation. I can pick a situation that does not suit the 350Z - like 30mph roll ... that does not make necesarily mean that the 350Z is a 'slow' car. It just means that at 30mph (ie 50mph) you are too going too fast to start the race in the 1st gear in, but a touch too low to do any favours to the 350Z's 2nd gear. All I just did a pick an artificial scenario like you with the 5mph roll. Just bacause one car is not suited to that one 'artificial' scenario does not mean that that one car is inferior. It's all about what you're after .... 350Z may be what you're after, but it's not for everyone (just like the S2000).
Now remember that I'm not opposed to the 350Z, and neither am I denying that it has plenty of desirable qualities. I'm just pointing out that S2000 has plenty of it's own, and for some of us they outweight what the 350Z has to offer.
07-05-2003, 04:12 AM
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Hey Shiri,
np. Why don't you come and check out the S2000 at one of the local tracks days? Concidering you live in Melbourne it should not be too difficult to organize.
np. Why don't you come and check out the S2000 at one of the local tracks days? Concidering you live in Melbourne it should not be too difficult to organize.
07-05-2003, 06:19 PM
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What happened??? I tried to access the links and got the following message:
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07-06-2003, 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by DavidM
Hey Shiri,
np. Why don't you come and check out the S2000 at one of the local tracks days? Concidering you live in Melbourne it should not be too difficult to organize.
Hey Shiri,
np. Why don't you come and check out the S2000 at one of the local tracks days? Concidering you live in Melbourne it should not be too difficult to organize.
Sorry David, I'm working in Japan. I have heard about the number of street car gatherings (there was one on Stud road in Rowville recently)... The F+F hype is just crazy over there.
BTW, have you heard of the Suzuki Cappuccino? Its similar to the S, except its more gruntless
07-06-2003, 04:24 AM
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Sorry David, I'm working in Japan. I have heard about the number of street car gatherings (there was one on Stud road in Rowville recently)... The F+F hype is just crazy over there.
I meant actual tracks like Winotn, Sandown, Phillip Island, etc. Still, that does not make much difference since you're in Japan. Personally I'm not much into the F+F thing and only read about those 'gatherings'.
BTW, have you heard of the Suzuki Cappuccino? Its similar to the S, except its more gruntless
lol, yeah we got them here as well. It's more like Honda City ... I'd day .... or 1/4 of the weight of a 350Z :-) Not really something that interests me ... too small and too guttless.
I meant actual tracks like Winotn, Sandown, Phillip Island, etc. Still, that does not make much difference since you're in Japan. Personally I'm not much into the F+F thing and only read about those 'gatherings'.
BTW, have you heard of the Suzuki Cappuccino? Its similar to the S, except its more gruntless
lol, yeah we got them here as well. It's more like Honda City ... I'd day .... or 1/4 of the weight of a 350Z :-) Not really something that interests me ... too small and too guttless.
07-06-2003, 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by DavidM
Sorry David, I'm working in Japan. I have heard about the number of street car gatherings (there was one on Stud road in Rowville recently)... The F+F hype is just crazy over there.
I meant actual tracks like Winotn, Sandown, Phillip Island, etc. Still, that does not make much difference since you're in Japan. Personally I'm not much into the F+F thing and only read about those 'gatherings'.
BTW, have you heard of the Suzuki Cappuccino? Its similar to the S, except its more gruntless
lol, yeah we got them here as well. It's more like Honda City ... I'd day .... or 1/4 of the weight of a 350Z :-) Not really something that interests me ... too small and too guttless.
Sorry David, I'm working in Japan. I have heard about the number of street car gatherings (there was one on Stud road in Rowville recently)... The F+F hype is just crazy over there.
I meant actual tracks like Winotn, Sandown, Phillip Island, etc. Still, that does not make much difference since you're in Japan. Personally I'm not much into the F+F thing and only read about those 'gatherings'.
BTW, have you heard of the Suzuki Cappuccino? Its similar to the S, except its more gruntless
lol, yeah we got them here as well. It's more like Honda City ... I'd day .... or 1/4 of the weight of a 350Z :-) Not really something that interests me ... too small and too guttless.