First post, first ticket - long
10-13-2001, 02:43 PM
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First post, first ticket - long
Today I was riding with my 15-year-old daughter, top down, enjoying the indian summer, more or less patiently following a five car caravan of leaf peepers along a NH road. The speed limit was 50; the leaf peepers were jumping back and forth between 33-52, depending upon what the foliage had to offer. We came to a long passing stretch and I dropped to 2nd, then 3rd, and passed them all with plenty of room to pull back in before the passing zone ended. There was no oncoming traffic. Then I stepped on the brake and brought it back down to 55, which I maintained until we reached the next town.
Where a police car was waiting at the intersection, the officer standing beside it and pointing me off the road. I pulled over, and after a few minutes one of the drivers I'd passed pulled up behind the cruiser. He got out and started talking excitedly to the cop, who hadn't yet approached our car. I heard him say, ". . . and he's got a KID in the car, for christ's sake!" Oh, oh.
So they come up to the car together. Passed man asks, "Do you know who I am?" I look at him close then say, "Sorry, no." He says, "I'm the X chief of police!" (X being the last town we'd passed through) My daughter whispers, "What is this, career day?" I shush her quick. The cop asks, "Do you know why I've stopped you?" I told him that I realized I'd passed 5 cars at once (legal? probably not), but there was more than enough room to do it safely, and I did resume the speed limit once I'd passed them all. "Have you had any tickets in the last 2 years?" he asks. I say no, which is true. Cop and chief exchange funny looks, then cop says, "the computer will tell me if you're lying." I see passed man looking me up and down. About this time I remember an encounter with a fellow S2K owner in the parking lot of our local video store. He'd said, "Whatever you do, be careful when you pass through X, because the police chief there is a real SOB." Then he went on to tell a story a lot like mine here. I'm pretty sure that chief, when he called ahead, was under the mistaken impression that I was the same guy he'd pulled over before, which might have something to do with his attitude.
Anyway, he got back in his car and took off, and the police officer went back to his car to check with the computer. After about 15 minutes he came back to the car and told me that the X chief of police had asked him to hit me with reckless operation (or something to that effect) which would mean a mandatory court appearance, at least a $300 fine, and probably suspension of license! But this was "his town", and he'd decided to give me a break and instead give me a $72 ticket for "illegal passing on the left" (chief X had claimed that I was in the left lane after the passing zone ended, which was an absolute, not even close, lie). But, he warned, if I decided to challenge and make him go to court, it could still be upgraded to the more serious offense.
I don't know what to do. I haven't had a ticket in YEARS, but I've had very many warnings. Once I have one blemish on the record, I'm sure the pattern will change (if mine doesn't). I feel that passing 5 cars like that (top speed 96mph) doesn't reflect the best judgement, especially when setting an example for a 15-year-old daughter. But I don't like the way the X police chief lied and exaggerated (he said I almost caused a head-on collision, even though there was no oncoming traffic throughout the episode). To make his job easier and avoid court? Is it legal or illegal to exceed the speed limit while in the process of passing? Is it legal or illegal to pass multiple cars at once? When the officer told me that I might be charged with reckless operation if I challenge the passing ticket, is that a legal threat?
Aside from all that, I've loved this car (picked it up in early July) and I've enjoyed following this group. Nov. 2-3 I'm going to Skip Barber Driver school. Until then I'll be the one going real . . . slow.
Where a police car was waiting at the intersection, the officer standing beside it and pointing me off the road. I pulled over, and after a few minutes one of the drivers I'd passed pulled up behind the cruiser. He got out and started talking excitedly to the cop, who hadn't yet approached our car. I heard him say, ". . . and he's got a KID in the car, for christ's sake!" Oh, oh.
So they come up to the car together. Passed man asks, "Do you know who I am?" I look at him close then say, "Sorry, no." He says, "I'm the X chief of police!" (X being the last town we'd passed through) My daughter whispers, "What is this, career day?" I shush her quick. The cop asks, "Do you know why I've stopped you?" I told him that I realized I'd passed 5 cars at once (legal? probably not), but there was more than enough room to do it safely, and I did resume the speed limit once I'd passed them all. "Have you had any tickets in the last 2 years?" he asks. I say no, which is true. Cop and chief exchange funny looks, then cop says, "the computer will tell me if you're lying." I see passed man looking me up and down. About this time I remember an encounter with a fellow S2K owner in the parking lot of our local video store. He'd said, "Whatever you do, be careful when you pass through X, because the police chief there is a real SOB." Then he went on to tell a story a lot like mine here. I'm pretty sure that chief, when he called ahead, was under the mistaken impression that I was the same guy he'd pulled over before, which might have something to do with his attitude.
Anyway, he got back in his car and took off, and the police officer went back to his car to check with the computer. After about 15 minutes he came back to the car and told me that the X chief of police had asked him to hit me with reckless operation (or something to that effect) which would mean a mandatory court appearance, at least a $300 fine, and probably suspension of license! But this was "his town", and he'd decided to give me a break and instead give me a $72 ticket for "illegal passing on the left" (chief X had claimed that I was in the left lane after the passing zone ended, which was an absolute, not even close, lie). But, he warned, if I decided to challenge and make him go to court, it could still be upgraded to the more serious offense.
I don't know what to do. I haven't had a ticket in YEARS, but I've had very many warnings. Once I have one blemish on the record, I'm sure the pattern will change (if mine doesn't). I feel that passing 5 cars like that (top speed 96mph) doesn't reflect the best judgement, especially when setting an example for a 15-year-old daughter. But I don't like the way the X police chief lied and exaggerated (he said I almost caused a head-on collision, even though there was no oncoming traffic throughout the episode). To make his job easier and avoid court? Is it legal or illegal to exceed the speed limit while in the process of passing? Is it legal or illegal to pass multiple cars at once? When the officer told me that I might be charged with reckless operation if I challenge the passing ticket, is that a legal threat?
Aside from all that, I've loved this car (picked it up in early July) and I've enjoyed following this group. Nov. 2-3 I'm going to Skip Barber Driver school. Until then I'll be the one going real . . . slow.
10-13-2001, 03:36 PM
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We all have momentary lapse of judgement. I've been caught in that situation as well, were cars in front don't maintain a consistent speed. It is actually unsafe for this "variable speed" idiots to be driving that way. But I digress.
The first answer to your question is no, you are not permitted to exceed the speed limit to pass a vehicle. The thought process goes, if you have to exceed the limit then there's no need to pass.
Passing multiple cars at once can go down as reckless operation of an automobile. It is lawful to pass one car at a time but not multiple cars.
And unfortunately, there is a remote chance of having your ticket upgraded to a heftier fine if you fight it. That is solely the decision of the judge. Some judges are hard asses. I recently had a speeding ticket and fought it with a lawyer friend of mine. He said the probability of getting an upgraded fine is minute yet there is still a chance. Luckily my 89mph in a 65 zone was thrown out of the court on a technicality. ( I was on my motorcycle at the time and my friend argued that the radar would not get a positive read on such a small footprint when compared to the 18 wheelers that were next to me).
My advice is to get a lawyer and fight it if the ticket will produce points. Otherwise pay it and forget it!
Good LUCK!!
The first answer to your question is no, you are not permitted to exceed the speed limit to pass a vehicle. The thought process goes, if you have to exceed the limit then there's no need to pass.
Passing multiple cars at once can go down as reckless operation of an automobile. It is lawful to pass one car at a time but not multiple cars.
And unfortunately, there is a remote chance of having your ticket upgraded to a heftier fine if you fight it. That is solely the decision of the judge. Some judges are hard asses. I recently had a speeding ticket and fought it with a lawyer friend of mine. He said the probability of getting an upgraded fine is minute yet there is still a chance. Luckily my 89mph in a 65 zone was thrown out of the court on a technicality. ( I was on my motorcycle at the time and my friend argued that the radar would not get a positive read on such a small footprint when compared to the 18 wheelers that were next to me).
My advice is to get a lawyer and fight it if the ticket will produce points. Otherwise pay it and forget it!
Good LUCK!!
10-13-2001, 05:26 PM
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The only way you can get a criminal violation of wreckless driving is if your actions were so wreckless that the the police officer could infer that you no longer have full control of your vehicle.(thus endangering the lives of others on the road) It's one of the most serious driving offenswes a cop can hit you with and they can't just do it for no reason. I was given a wreckless driving ticket for doing things on the highway 10 times more dangerous than merely passing on the left, I fought it with a lawyer and he got me off fairly easily with no points. I wouldn't worry too much about the ticket being upgraded(this also depends on what kind of a lawyer you get), so I would still go ahead and fight it in court. If you can come up with a valid case to defend your actions than a lawyer has a damn good shot to get the case "thrown out"
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10-14-2001, 06:46 AM
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The burden of proof for any traffic ticket rests on the state. Usually, this is satisfied by an officer giving an eyewitness account, which is essentially 'unrebuttable'. [This has happened to me personally in the past in traffic court. The officer states how his radar gun was calibrated that day, how he clocked me, etc. I respond and say that I was not speeding. Result: ticket for me, the tie always seems to go to the police officer.]
However, here, the officer did not see you commit any violation. He cannot 'prove' that you did anything wrong. All this means. . . the X Police Chief would have to show at court. In many jurisdictions, if the X Police Chief doesn't show, they throw the ticket out. Even if he does show, he probably has not rapport with the court, and you have your own witness, a good thing. Consult with a lawyer about your situation (first discussion is usually free anyway) to see where you stand in the bizarre set of facts. I'd say it's worth burning a lunch break to see what your options are.
My guess is that the cop did not give you a reckless driving ticket not out of the goodness of his heart, but b/c he knew you'd likely fight it and have a good chance of winning b/c of evidentiary issues.
However, here, the officer did not see you commit any violation. He cannot 'prove' that you did anything wrong. All this means. . . the X Police Chief would have to show at court. In many jurisdictions, if the X Police Chief doesn't show, they throw the ticket out. Even if he does show, he probably has not rapport with the court, and you have your own witness, a good thing. Consult with a lawyer about your situation (first discussion is usually free anyway) to see where you stand in the bizarre set of facts. I'd say it's worth burning a lunch break to see what your options are.
My guess is that the cop did not give you a reckless driving ticket not out of the goodness of his heart, but b/c he knew you'd likely fight it and have a good chance of winning b/c of evidentiary issues.
10-14-2001, 07:01 AM
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I am a lawyer and I don't even think I would fight this one. Not with a Police Chief eye witness, your admissions of exceeding the speed limit, 15 y/o in car etc. etc. good luck though