ultimate lurker

Laughing, reread my post please because clearly we aren't on the same page.

1. Nothing in my post said competing is about 1/4 times only. However, 1/4 times are an excellent demonstration of both hp and traction, and for faster cars, hp and drag on the top end with trap speeds. Note that the 911 Turbo (993, as most of us have been talking about, don't know what Chris actually raced) turns about the same trap speeds as Chris' car at the strip. That indicates that both cars accelerate very similarly, the key difference being that the 993 Turbo gets a better jump off the line than Chris has been able to achieve as of yet.

2. In terms of aerodynamic issues, all we can say to date is that with the trap speeds returned by most 911 Turbo owners (I've only seen 993 timeslips), Chris's car is pretty close from 60 to 120 mph - hence my comment about mid speed rolls. And of course, aero issues only come into play "at speed", don't they? If Chris really wants to race beyond the 1/4 mile, then he's likely to get pulled, but I suspect that such races won't happen too often.

3. Exageration? I don't consider 3.3% more drag an exageration as a lot. Designers would kill to reduce Cd by 0.01. Then there is the problem of the Turbo (993 or 996) having about 3% more frontal area than a regular 911. All told that means that you've got about 6% more aero drag for a 911 Turbo. Add to that the rolling drag from the bigger tires and you're talking about a serious differential. Of course, maybe you don't consider 6-7% more/less power significant - if so, fine. I would point out several tests by C&D which showed that widebody equipped 911's of the 993 and 964 genre had significantly lowered top speeds and slower acceleration times at speed with the same engine. C&D noted this in a test of a Carrera 4S as well as in a test of a couple of Ruf modified cars with the same engine package in coupe and widebody chassis.

4. The AWD/Tires/Etc. sapping power is in relation to Chris' car. A 993 Turbo actually puts about 390-400 hp to the wheels with the front wheel drive disconnected. Chris' car is putting down 334 hp to the wheels now. Reconnect the front driveline on the 911 and you'll see additional losses. 3 diffs, 1 driveshaft and 4 halfshafts will cost you more in parasitic losses than 1 diff and 2 halfshafts. Call it another 20 hp in losses. 370 hp vs. 334 hp. About a 10% differential. Even if the Turbo put 400 to the wheels in AWD mode (and maybe the 996 does) that 20% power advantage over Chris doesn't quite fully offset the weight penalty the 911 suffers. In terms of aerodrag, Chris is still at a disadvantage. He has a more than 10% higher Cd, while his frontal area is only 5% less. But again, if he wants to go racing above 120-130 mph, best of luck to him.

In any event, the real data we have is quarter mile times, and Chris' car, especially if he gets his launches optimized, is enough to give a 911 Turbo driver, at least from 993 and earlier, pause. His trap speeds also indicate that on the roll he is close enough to make things interesting in mid-speed encounters.

Hope that clears things up.

UL

always_laughing

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
[B]<big ole snip>

In any event, the real data we have is quarter mile times, and Chris' car, especially if he gets his launches optimized, is enough to give a 911 Turbo driver, at least from 993 and earlier, pause.

carace

And the whole discussion is null if the Porsche owner has modded his car. They have been known to do that.

icefire069

oh man you should have been in south tampa last night. me and my mom went to go shop and eat over in hydepark and the valet parking over on the restaurant at the corner of swann and rome was a nice line of 3 2001+ 911 turbo and a nice black modena. was that a pretty site to see.

derryck

Chris' car at 10 psi and race gas gas will put down 350+RWHP which I'm going to say should equate to over 400 hp at the crank so there really is not much difference in hp (at 10 psi). At 6 psi then Chris is probably around 295 RWHP which makes the hp variance much more noticable. There's a big difference between 6 psi and 8 psi and an even bigger diff. between 8 psi and 10 psi, at least where the butt dyno is concerned.

Bassmaster

not a chance huh? naysayers!

REV.Group

if you have a comptech aways can get a science of speed pully kit 367whp then you can upgrade a few more things to gave you power like a 70mm header back system okada projects, ground system, j's header and sos throttle body then you can try your luck again that should be more then 367whp if you want to drag better you can go with a C-West kit it's wind tunnel tested

fusionchickenleg

reviving 5 year old thread ftw.

hp is hp...an s2000 can be made as fast as a 996tt, and so can a civic to an Enzo.

once an s2000 traps around 116mph it'll give a 996tt a run for its money. it's not rocket science......

osu s2k

first we are not even considering the x50 package or if he has a chip which adds 75+ horsepower. I love the s2000 and have never been in a boosted one, but the 996tt would be a lot to handle.

REV.Group

get even more crazyer if money is not a issus tech art,RUF.or gambella if you really want to get crazy and if you really love the S2000 then you can HKS 3.4 2JZ-GTE with 2 3730S SPL it fits and make big power