NJTom2000

There has been a lot of talk about the new Khumo's on the boards. I'm a few events away from needing to order new tires. I'm trying to decide between the Hoosiers and the two Khumo's.

Aside from talk and speculation, I figure one way to try to determine which tires to go with would be based on what people are seeing at the top level events. ( I do realize that surfaces/temps differ around the country but I still think its a valid comparison )

So my question to you guys is what are you seeing at the top events?

Is anyone competitive on the new Khumos? Doesn't have to be on an s2000, or even in BS. Any similar classes would work as well.

Is the Hoosier the tire to beat?

-- Tom

preparedcivic

Tom:

You're dragging me out of lurk-o-dom on this board to offer my .02 to offer my opinion.....

The quick response I'll give is that for probably 90% of the autocrossers or casual track day people out there, the old original Kumho is the tire of choice. Nothing I've heard about the new Kumho is very good. The general conclusions are that it takes a long time to heat up, then wears way to quick for the amount of grip it has, along with feeling very squirmy unless shaved. Now if the desire is to chase fame and fortune and Pro Solo wins and National Championships, then Hoosier Radial "A's"are the way to go. The A compound is only good for about 30-40 runs with a good level of grip. It goes down gradually from there. And an A compound H brand would not be a good choice for a track day. The R compound would probably be somewhat better from a wear standpoint, but with correspondingly less grip when used for autocross. In fact I know no one currently using them for that. So the summary is its depends on what your level of interest and intent is. Each tire is also somewhat surface dependent, but different drivers can be the equalizers. The conventional wisdom is that the K is almost equal to the H on asphalt, but about .6 sec per 60sec behind on concrete.

Since I know you, and our no-grip old asphalt local site, I would say stay with new "old" Kumhos, and with the money saved over the "H" brand spring for a front anti-roll bar, if you haven't put one on already. See ya on Saturday?

jguerdat

Careful, there. Some of the folks here have been running the R (road race) compound 215/40-16 tires and winning national events...

jzr

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jguerdat
[B]Careful, there.

jguerdat

Oh, crap, I didn't see the "A" listed. I was under the impression that the size was "R" only. Next time, I'll read more closely (I don't wear bifocals for nothing)...

RandyP

For the last 0.1% of performance, the question is: Which Hoosier tire size should I use?
So far, the answer is course dependent, I think.

NJTom2000

No one else wants to contribute?

So basically no one knows of any top level competitors running the new Khumos, and beyond that most top s2000 competitors are running Hoosiers and are trying out different size combos.

preparedcivic - I'll be there Saturday, I'm hoping to have my bar installed by then. Our local BS class should be a lot of fun this year. I'll probably go with a new set of the old Khumos, but I'll hold out till I see how our other local silver s2k likes the Hoosiers he's going to be running on.

jzr

Some of the Miata guys are running the new Kumhos, but they don't have the right size for our cars.

The "standard" setup is 225/245. Like preparedcivic said, on asphalt there's not a huge Kumho/Hoosier difference, but on concrete the Hoosiers really shine. The 215/40 Hoosier was just recently released and it's what was on the winning car at the El Toro ProSolo. But Joe Goeke's scratch times were right there with Andy's, on normal Hoosiers. I think it takes a really good driver and a somewhat extreme setup to get the 215's to work, so I don't recommend you try it.

j2k

the new Kumho's dont come in any good sizes for "Stock" S2000s. Thats why you dont see anyone on them. Further, as has been mentioned, the rubber compound on them sucks... which is why Kumho will soon be reverting to the old Victoracer compound on the new Ecstas. Or so I'm told.

There are people competeing and winning on the new Kumhos... but not because they're got the fastest tire.

-jason keeney

preparedcivic

I didn't even think of size availability.......because they make both the sizes that can be run on my slow girly Toyota.

Thinking about the comparison of grip between brands, the easy way to describe it is the stickier the surface you're on, the more grip Hoosiers are going to have, up to that .6 per 60. That said, after suffering with Hoosiers in 2000, I switched to Kumhos last year and was considerably more successful, finding that at least when they are down to 2/32's they work pretty well on Peru and Topeka concrete. I still think a Hoosier would have been faster, but at that point in the season I didn't want to change a thing. As has been debated many times in a lot of places, what works for you or me or somebody else may not work for everyone. Whether it be tire brand, size, shocks, swaybars, etc.

I can't imagine a S2000 with 215/40 rubber bands stretched across the back. I'm familar with the 225/45 carcass, as that's what was on my Celica in Y2K. The cross section is more like 235mm, but even so, running them all around there is still no stagger front to back, so sweepers would be diabolical......without something radical done with the set-up as mentioned above.