msm_s2k

Yes, schrader valves.

Range of adjustment for the CS is the same as the MS.

Holes in my trunk are big enough to put the external reservoirs through. We then put a nice rubber surround that provides just enough of a hole for the tube. BTW it's a hole in the trunk ... nothing to do with the chasis. Mounting the external reservoirs elsewhere is an unnecessary compromise in my opinion. Do you really want to have to pop the wheel off or crawl under the car everytime you want to make an adjustment?

If you're not going to make the adjustments, just stick with the stock suspension.

If you're going to make adjustments, then not mounting the reservoirs in a convenient place is ... well ... stupid.

Rosie -->

TC Design

We are a Moton factory authorized rebuild and repair facility, there are less than a handfull in the US. We also have a Roehrig shock dyno on site. Give us a call we can answer any questions you have and help you make a good choice.

-tony
TCD
408-956-1526

Naka

I wouldn't be that harsh on my opinion, but yes, I know what you mean.

I have D/A on my other two cars and I'm changing the adjustments multiple times per weekend when I'm at the track. Sad thing is, when I finally get the super sweet spot, it's time to go home.

So, NO, i don't plan to install them where I can't reach them easily. I was more in the path of quick-disconnects to avoid the big holes in the trunk, and compromise with small holes and groomets, instead.

I just researched it and the holes are actually bigger than previously mentioned. They are 3" wide. (8cm). And, as it was mentioned above, it would make my car illegal for stock class.

Naka

I just talked to a Moton factory engineer (Lex?) and Jason Saini.

For further reference to other forum members who may have the same questions, I'm going to post their answer to my questions:


1. How much better are the MS compared to the CS?
Not that much. Not worth the price difference. Internals are exactly the same. And there is no weight difference either. Worse case scenario, with the CS, you would be only one click away from the perfect setting using MS.

2. What is the estimated service time between rebuilts if driven daily on the street (is it any different between the MS and CS?)
Estimated time, in average is 2-3 years between rebuilts. Moton recommends it every year for profesional teams participating in the ALMS. The track is significantly tougher on the shocks than street driving. That's the reason for extended interval with a street/autocross car. There is no difference between the MS and CS in this regard.

3. Installation hardware: Are they bolt-on no matter where I get them from, or do I have to fabricate/buy new pieces?
They come ready to install from factory. No parts needed. The only thing you may need to do is drill out a bigger opening for the shock adjuster at the top stock bushing located at front shock tower mount point.

4. The Moton website does not show a Clubsport application for the S2000. Does that mean they don't make one specifically for our cars? Then, am I wrong to assume that the factory valving for the CS may be different from the S2000-specific MS?
The website is not up to date. They do make shocks specifically for our application and the valving and range of adjustment are exactly the same.

5. Where do you mount the remote reservoirs? Pics?
In the front, anywhere in the engine comparment. In the rear, the ideal location is the trunk. But you can install them in the wheel well also.

6. How do you run the hoses from the fender well to the engine compartment and trunk? Do you have to drill the chassis or are there openings you can use?
In the front, there is direct access from the wheel well. No drilling necessary. In the rear however, there are three options:
a) Drilling small 2cm openings to run a quick-disconnect (quick-disconnects are OK for installation purposes, but not recommended for repetitive plug-in and out. Prior to using the quick-disconnects, it is required to drain the gas out of the remote canister. Which means, whenever you use the quick disconnects, nitrogen will be needed. Not much of an issue if this is done only when intalling them or prior to sending them for revalving (once every 2 years).
b) Drilling big 8cm openings to run the remote reservoirs without needing quick-disconnects (probably the most practical and popular among racers, but illegal in stock autocross car).
c) Installing the remote reservoir in the wheel well (not readily accesible for frequent adjustments).

7. What's the minimum gas pressure you can run without producing cavitation? Is it lower than other manufacturers? What's the estimated lifting force compared to shocks with smaller valve area? In other words, given the autocross stock class regulations; will the car sit lower, same, or higher than with other shocks, including stock?
Motons, they claim, can easily handle pressures as low as 100 psi without producing cavitation. That's lower than other manufacturers could claim. In fact, even lower pressures could be run for autocross purposes, since the runs are limited to few minutes only. If cavitation occurs, no damage is done to the shock. they return to normal once the fluid cools down. But for the street, they recommend it to keep it at least at a 100 (I believe Penskes use 150psi).
In other words, the difference in ride height is negligible because Motons can handle lower gas pressures to compensate for their bigger diameter piston.


8. I read on the Moton website that the gas pressure is adjustable. Is that adjusted prior to shipping? Or is that something you can adjust with a knob? What's the factory default? I wonder if the CS have the same adjustability and range.
The gas pressure upon shipping is 175psi. You need a nitrogen tank, a pressure regulator and a special gauge that attaches to the canister to properly adjust and tune gas pressure. CS have the same factory setting and adjustability properties.

FormulaRedline

Good answers, nice of them to take the time.

crash

I am not coming in here to sound like a dick but don't you think if your running a stock class that running 4k dollar shocks is cheating.

I would think that if I was there playing and some guy was making adjustments to his expensive shocks I would be pissed.

ITS A STOCK CLASS KEEP IT THAT WAY.

on another note.
If cutting holes in the car to make the remotes go through is not a option for you I would go with something that does not have them.

there are many good shocks out there.
I am running KW V2's on my race car and I like them.
plus they do not have the remotes.

just my 2 cents.

PedalFaster

If the rules explicitly permit your shocks, why is it cheating?

crash

your right its not cheating.
I just don't get it stock class but you can run remote shocks.
I am racing in improved touring and I cant use remote shocks so I am having a hard time understanding how they are ok for a stock class autocross.

the more I think about it the more I would say check the rules and make sure they say remote reservoirs are ok.

I guess I am just jealous I cant use them.

Orthonormal

There is no price cap on shocks in SCCA Stock autocrossing. Saini was asking more than that for his used set of Stock-legal shocks. Was he cheating when he won the national championship?

What's the most someone can spend before you consider it cheating?

Orthonormal

Because they're not a performance benefit for autocrossing -- you can do the same thing in a monotube shock, but it may cost more. There's really no point mandating that people buy Ohlins/Motons/Koni 28s to get a monotube shock when they might be happy with the cheaper Penske 8100.

My question would be, why are they prohibited in IT?