Track Day Brake Failure
09-08-2003, 11:34 AM
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Track Day Brake Failure
I was at a track day Friday where a Viper lost brakes and had a meeting with a tire wall at 70+ MPH. The Viper is a street vehicle with high temp brake fluid, after market slotted rotors, EBC Red pads. Recently bleed fluid, new fluid 30 days previous. Rotor temperatures after a cool down lap were in the 800 deg F range. Best explanation is boiling of the brake fluid resulting in no warning brake failure. After the impact and the vehicle was pulled off the tires, the brakes were functional.
I currently run Carbotech Panther Plus pads and Super Blue Brake Fluid/NEO Brake Fluid (alternate fluid - different colour helps when doing a complete bleed). I have measured just shy of 600 deg F on the front rotors after a 1.5 lap cool down. (1.75 mile track)
Has anyone experienced what the Viper experienced?
100 MPH into a 45 MPH corner - not my idea of fun!
Brake ducts would probably help but would need to be removed for SCCA stock class events.
I currently run Carbotech Panther Plus pads and Super Blue Brake Fluid/NEO Brake Fluid (alternate fluid - different colour helps when doing a complete bleed). I have measured just shy of 600 deg F on the front rotors after a 1.5 lap cool down. (1.75 mile track)
Has anyone experienced what the Viper experienced?
100 MPH into a 45 MPH corner - not my idea of fun!
Brake ducts would probably help but would need to be removed for SCCA stock class events.
09-08-2003, 11:53 AM
#2
There are many, many brake system threads, but in general, the S2000's brakes are one of the strongest-performing parts of the car. A well-maintained stock brake system with upgraded pads and fluid is more than sufficient for the S when using street tires. With DOT-R compounds, one might consider brake ducting, not so much as a safety factor but for convenience, since they can potentially help reduce the frequency of needing new rotors. It's only when using full race slicks that the stock brakes might be overwhelmed.
The Viper's overheating problems are with the car's weight and, most likely, the aftermarket brakes. Too many aftermarket systems aim for extreme weight reduction, which reduces the thermal capacity of the rotors and calipers. The stock cast-iron rotors on the S2K are designed to handle quite a lot of heat.
The Viper's overheating problems are with the car's weight and, most likely, the aftermarket brakes. Too many aftermarket systems aim for extreme weight reduction, which reduces the thermal capacity of the rotors and calipers. The stock cast-iron rotors on the S2K are designed to handle quite a lot of heat.
09-09-2003, 09:26 PM
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Stock Viper (Gen I and Gen II, not SRT-10) brakes suck. The car weighs 3400 lbs. and needs better brakes. Going 130+ down the backstraight at B-Willow I kept wondering... hmmm are my brakes gonna stop me this time? At least there is no wall there to run into.
Later on Sunday, Joe and Jonathan look at my fluid and say "$HIT Craig, look at your fluid. When was the last time you changed it?" I had changed it prior to 3 track days prior. Maybe they were just messing with my head?
I've heard of a couple of other Viper brake failures on the track (posted on the VCA board)
I remember following Joe B. in the Boxster S (stock Brembo with Pagid Orange) at B-Willow last November. Going into Star Mazda I was able to brake much much later than he was (he didn't have his CC then). He was running Brakeman #3's like I do. Johathan was in my car for one session and was amazed at how I was able to get on Joe's bumper in the braking zone. Stock Viper brakes are that bad.
I need some Stoptechs.
Later on Sunday, Joe and Jonathan look at my fluid and say "$HIT Craig, look at your fluid. When was the last time you changed it?" I had changed it prior to 3 track days prior. Maybe they were just messing with my head?
I've heard of a couple of other Viper brake failures on the track (posted on the VCA board)
I remember following Joe B. in the Boxster S (stock Brembo with Pagid Orange) at B-Willow last November. Going into Star Mazda I was able to brake much much later than he was (he didn't have his CC then). He was running Brakeman #3's like I do. Johathan was in my car for one session and was amazed at how I was able to get on Joe's bumper in the braking zone. Stock Viper brakes are that bad.
I need some Stoptechs.
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