CoralDoc

I thought that I knew what I wanted - per recommendation by many in this forum - 225/50/16 for the front and 245/45/16 in the rear. But, I just got off the phone with a helpful salesman at TireRack and he cautioned against this combination on stock rims .

I want a second set of wheels to use for DE events on the track and local autocrosses. I still have a lot of learning to do, so I don't need the most trick setup, just something that can take me to the next level and that will limit chunking and wear to my street wheels.

I know that Kumho V700 and Hoosier A3SO3 tires in the sizes above has been used successfully by many experienced members of this forum, but the salesman said that TireRack's engineering department cautions against the wider tire size. He recommended a new tire - the BF Goodrich g-Force T/A R1A. The "A" designation refers to a fiberglass belted version that is lighter than the standard R1. It is available in the stock tire sizes - 205/55/16 and 225/50/16. The salesman's point is that the more narrow tires will not bow as much as wider ones, actually resulting in better performance.

Help me out - "smoke and mirrors" or valid analysis?

SoloVR6

I have to say as good as tire rack is they have to cover their ass. If they sold a certain tire and wheel combo to a customer and there was a fault with the size, then TTR would be held accountable.

Tire rack swore up and down that there was no way I was going to get 225 tires with a 7.5"rim on my VW. I placed the order anyway. Even with the lowered suspension the fit just fine. Now I am the kind of person that if the combo didn't work that I would consider myself to blame. The rest of the world isn't like that.

I have it on a reliable source that the S2K works really well on the street tire size, and actually that is what Honda designed the suspension around. However going to a larger tire helps in certain areas. The larger tire helps grip in long sweeping corners, what you would encounter in road racing. Also the larger tire handles heat better than a smaller tire. Although driving within the limits of the tire is important, overdriving the car and the tires isn't always the fastest way around.

If you are looking for something more durable that the street tires the BFG's are a good choice, however they are dicontinued and you may not be able to get another set in the future. So setting up the car to a obsolete tire isn't wise.
The road race compund Hoosier R3S03 last longer than the Autocross compound. Kumhos last longer than both Hoosiers. The BFG G-Force T/A KD Street tire is a good compromise to a race tire. Quoted to have good grip, at least as good as the R1 (Doubtful) at least that was the reason BFG gave when they dropped the R1 tire, and pulled their contigency.

I plan to go with the bigger tires, despite what TTR says. Think of how much you are actually using them, if they were on the car all the time that would be a different story.

jschmidt

TireRack has become the place for liability protection advice. They are completly blowing smoke about the tire sizes. A rude jerk there told me that the 245 AVS Sports would definitly not fit and that they knew this because their "Engineering Department" had tested them. They would only deliver them on a non-returnable basis. It's crap. They fit well with much room to spare.

BTW, they were really pushing AVS Intermediates which I believe is spiff-related advice and is beneath the high standards we've all gotten used to from the Rack.

The Rack is still a good place for a good deal. They just no longer give good performance alternative advice.

jguerdat

Actually, this is good advice. You run into whether you can get the sizes you want on any particular tire and that's a lot of how folks get to the 225/245 setups (no 205 offered).

And then there's the theory of "the biggest tire that can be stuffed onto the wheel/into the wheelwell" which seems intuitive but, as you point out, also can keep the tread from laying flat on the pavement.

Finally, there's the observation that, in any particular size tire, the wider wheel (to a point) allows it to be best maximized (kinda the reverse of the above paragraph). This is where you REALLY want to be but tire choices force compromises.

Now, with all this said, we run into reality and the differences in tires. Only the BFG G-Force R1 has the 205 size. While this is a Good Thing, the fact that these tires are less competitive (as well as not being made anymore) makes you choose - size or competitiveness? The same thing holds true with the Kumho and Hoosier contingents - the same sizes but one may be better for your driving than the other.

How to tell what to do? Unfortunatley, the only real way to tell is to try 'em all and test, test, test. This is a major gripe I have about the "stock" classes since some folks have the ability to do this while others don't. Yep, we can learn after-the-fact about the experiences (this is what I do) but has anyone actually tested the BFGs or did they simply diss them as non-competitive? That part of the story has never been told that I'm aware of.

When all is said and done, following the lead of national competitors won't steer you wrong. That doesn't mean it couldn't be better but if they're winning, is it worth the worry/effort to find out?

I'm happy with the 225/245 Kumhos and don't see a reason to NOT recommend them. I cannot, however, dismiss the BFGs since I've never driven on them. At least one person locally prefers the BFGs over the Kumhos but he's definitely in the minority. I can't afford to buy yet another set of wheels and tires to actually test them so...

robj

You may already know this but the only other item I will add is that you are going to change the

Gregg Lee

The construction of the tire will make much more difference in "bowing" or sidewall flex that 2 cm cross section. The V700 is quite stiff for example. I run this combination in V700 for autocross. They are hugely crisper on turn-in that s02's meaning they flex less, not more. I also recently replaced original wornout S02's with Kuhmo 712's in the 225-245 size combination. Not quite crisp as v700, but very quiet on the road and AA wet grip rating. I also like the look of the wider tires. But I digress.

There is a big "however" with this size combo. It will dramatically increase oversteer, due (we all assume) to the size ratio change already mentioned by robj. It does take some of the surprise factor out because you oversteer on every corner all the time. You learn to drive sideways. Fun but slow. My car is now neutral handling because I have a 1.25 inch solid front swaybar, which calculates about 95% stiffer than stock.

Sev

Yokohama A032Rs come ine 205/55/16s...

I am going 205/245 F/R A032Rs next year on the stock rims, that should keep the balance... Yokohama is also a great sponsor of our autoX club. However, from what i have heard, they arn't as good as the above mentioned R compounds yet they do give more progressive breakaway which to me is also important.

jguerdat

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gregg Lee
[B]The construction of the tire will make much more difference in "bowing" or sidewall flex that 2 cm cross section.

cdelena

I use the Yoko's in 205/245 sizes on the track and I think the balance is excellent. They have a very stiff sidewall like the Kumhos so turn-in feels very quick in comparison to the S02s.

For all the talk about what R tire is better, I have not found anyone who has run both the Yoko and the Kumho on the same car at the same track.. I talked to one that had used both on different cars and he said he thought he preferred the Kumhos, but not so much to as to buy sizes he didn't want (discussing 225 fronts for the track).

Also commented that autox is a different than the road course with speculation that Kumho has compounds tailored for both. I have also talked to people that have used both on the street.. saying the Yoko is better in the rain but the block pattern makes too much noise for some.

I have been told that the wear of the g-force tires is much faster that the Yoko or Kumho so that driving to the track on them is not a good option.

Sev

I was already sold on the yokos but thanks for the info, it only reinforces my decision for next summer.