Suspension problem from track accident
10-09-2010, 10:34 PM
#12
Those eccentric bolts just spin and are supposed to be adjusted when taken in for alignment. So if they were out of place, then the shop would have readjusted them.
Are you going to a reputable alignment shop? I took my car to firestone twice becuase the first tech couldnt adjust my camber fully whereas the second tech had no problems. Not saying this is the problem, but want to throw it out there.
I think you should pull out the helm FSM and compare the suspnesion point measurements it lists somewhere in the book.
Are you going to a reputable alignment shop? I took my car to firestone twice becuase the first tech couldnt adjust my camber fully whereas the second tech had no problems. Not saying this is the problem, but want to throw it out there.
I think you should pull out the helm FSM and compare the suspnesion point measurements it lists somewhere in the book.
10-15-2010, 04:32 PM
#13
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Ok, I took it to another alignment shop that is a bit more knowledgeable about race applications and they still couldn't visually see any bent components under the car. They did see that there was some type of impact to the right rear subframe. They recommended I first take the car to a frame shop and get it inspected and measured to make sure nothing is tweaked. They said if that checks out, the next thing to do is to start throwing suspension parts at it.
Andrew Wojteczko - When you say "rear uprights," are you referring to the rear upper arms? They do look paper thin and I can see how they could easily get bent.
Andrew Wojteczko - When you say "rear uprights," are you referring to the rear upper arms? They do look paper thin and I can see how they could easily get bent.
10-16-2010, 07:35 AM
#14
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No the arms are quite robust as they are loaded primarily in tension/compression.
The upright is also called the knuckle, the piece that carried the hub and axle
Check between the outer tie rod end and the brake backing shield. Compare the gap from left to right, if it's not equal that is probably your issue.
I had this on my ap2 after a side impact, eccentrics stayed put but camber went positive and toe in all from the bend in the upright.
The way the upright is designed there is a large moment on the mount for the outer toe arm and it is prone to bending under high load.
The upright is also called the knuckle, the piece that carried the hub and axle
Check between the outer tie rod end and the brake backing shield. Compare the gap from left to right, if it's not equal that is probably your issue.
I had this on my ap2 after a side impact, eccentrics stayed put but camber went positive and toe in all from the bend in the upright.
The way the upright is designed there is a large moment on the mount for the outer toe arm and it is prone to bending under high load.
10-20-2010, 03:25 PM
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Ok, just got the car back from the frame shop. They did full measurements and found no issues with the frame. Everything was well within specs. So I am assuming the problem has to be with the suspension components.
Andrew - I also asked the frame guy to measure the uprights as you recommended and he said they checked out fine. They didn't find anything wrong with it. But I don't know how thorough of a job he did on the suspension measurements.
So I still don't know what is causing the alignment problems. I might try and take the car to another specialized alignment shop to hopefully diagnose the issue. Does anyone have any more clues to what might be the problem?
Andrew - I also asked the frame guy to measure the uprights as you recommended and he said they checked out fine. They didn't find anything wrong with it. But I don't know how thorough of a job he did on the suspension measurements.
So I still don't know what is causing the alignment problems. I might try and take the car to another specialized alignment shop to hopefully diagnose the issue. Does anyone have any more clues to what might be the problem?
10-29-2010, 06:04 AM
#17
Check the eccentric washer guide tabs. I had an off and bent those. I just bent them back into place with a hammer. Granted, I don't know how bad your off was, but I had two pretty damn bad offs (one bent an RPF1, one destroyed an RPF1) and nothing was bent. All I had happen was the eccentrics slipped. I've been meaning to post that I am thoroughly impressed with the engineering and resilience of the S2000 suspension. Quality.
Make sure you are over-torquing your eccentric bolts. Stock is like 58 fronts, 54 rears, and 40 rear toe control. I torque all of them to 100lbs ft. They are the size of wheel studs, so don't be scared to put some torque on them.
I have noticed that alignment issues are more often a problem with either:
A) Machine inconsistencies.
B) Operator error.
I run a lot of "NASCAR" direction circuits and subsequently when I took my car to be aligned at shop A, the operator said he could only get -1.4 for camber on the right front. I said okay and just matched the left front.
Moving on, I had an off and had to have the car aligned again, now at Shop B. This time on the machine, all the sudden both fronts went to -1.7 just like normal.
Just yesterday at Shop C, the LF would only go to -1.4.
These results are all from three different machines and three different operators. I think my solution is going to be simply buying an older used Hunter LASER machine as they seem pretty cheap.
Also, it is very uncommon to find alignment techs that actually understand the S2000 alignment procedures or that will let you accompany them. If you don't watch what they are doing and make recommendations, you are going to get a crap product back. I have to make sure that they don't just set camber, then set toe, and then call it done. You also have to ensure that they torque the bolts down correctly because they won't on their own. You'll get "snugged" and they will slip even if you tell them. You have to watch and ensure yourself that the torquing is being done.
Make sure you are over-torquing your eccentric bolts. Stock is like 58 fronts, 54 rears, and 40 rear toe control. I torque all of them to 100lbs ft. They are the size of wheel studs, so don't be scared to put some torque on them.
I have noticed that alignment issues are more often a problem with either:
A) Machine inconsistencies.
B) Operator error.
I run a lot of "NASCAR" direction circuits and subsequently when I took my car to be aligned at shop A, the operator said he could only get -1.4 for camber on the right front. I said okay and just matched the left front.
Moving on, I had an off and had to have the car aligned again, now at Shop B. This time on the machine, all the sudden both fronts went to -1.7 just like normal.
Just yesterday at Shop C, the LF would only go to -1.4.
These results are all from three different machines and three different operators. I think my solution is going to be simply buying an older used Hunter LASER machine as they seem pretty cheap.
Also, it is very uncommon to find alignment techs that actually understand the S2000 alignment procedures or that will let you accompany them. If you don't watch what they are doing and make recommendations, you are going to get a crap product back. I have to make sure that they don't just set camber, then set toe, and then call it done. You also have to ensure that they torque the bolts down correctly because they won't on their own. You'll get "snugged" and they will slip even if you tell them. You have to watch and ensure yourself that the torquing is being done.
09-19-2011, 10:53 AM
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Hi guys,
I know this is an old thread, but I finally got the suspension fixed this weekend. It was both knuckles on the right side which were damaged as some of you had pointed out. A big thanks goes out to Evasive for helping pin-point the problem and to Kel for doing the final alignment which got me back to spec.
4 separate shops were not able to identify the issue upon inspection and it was not until I took it to Evasive that they put certainty in the knuckles being at fault as they are the weakest component on the S2000 suspension and the first to give on impact. Even upon removing the knuckles, there was no visual damage or difference that I could see between the old and the new. But as soon as the swap was complete, I immediately could see negative camber in the right rear wheel. Hooray! Took it to Kel and he was able to get me even more camber both front and rear that I had hoped for on stock suspension (-1.9 front and -2.5 rear). So for those who are also experiencing suspension issues after an accident or off track excursion and can't figure out what's wrong, consider possible damage to the knuckle. Or take it to Evasive for the low down. Thanks again all for your support and guidance!
I know this is an old thread, but I finally got the suspension fixed this weekend. It was both knuckles on the right side which were damaged as some of you had pointed out. A big thanks goes out to Evasive for helping pin-point the problem and to Kel for doing the final alignment which got me back to spec.
4 separate shops were not able to identify the issue upon inspection and it was not until I took it to Evasive that they put certainty in the knuckles being at fault as they are the weakest component on the S2000 suspension and the first to give on impact. Even upon removing the knuckles, there was no visual damage or difference that I could see between the old and the new. But as soon as the swap was complete, I immediately could see negative camber in the right rear wheel. Hooray! Took it to Kel and he was able to get me even more camber both front and rear that I had hoped for on stock suspension (-1.9 front and -2.5 rear). So for those who are also experiencing suspension issues after an accident or off track excursion and can't figure out what's wrong, consider possible damage to the knuckle. Or take it to Evasive for the low down. Thanks again all for your support and guidance!
