Spin2000
12-05-2014, 05:15 AM
#21
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I always treated the track days at Keystone as race prep, as I also run Chumpcar races, Easykart races, and drifting. I am sure my car was too loose for the best lap times, however, I was using the sessions as driver training.
12-05-2014, 07:25 AM
#22
Registered User
Nick is taking much better lines and driving the car as it should be driven and can improve his times by utilizing more of the track and cleaning up a few key corners. Most attempts to go faster by the OP will likely end up in some version of what you see in the first video. If you were a driving instructor who's car would you want to ride in 
And unless I am missing something these are track days not TTs, so it isn't so much about time as it is about driving the car properly. Nick could be driving at 7/10 excited to make it home to his familily with his car and self in one peice, the OP could care less about any of that and be hitting it at 10/10. If this where a wheel to wheel race who do you suppose would get to the end first?
And for the sake of argument let's say it was car setup, a car is a thing, it does not have a mind of its own. The setup either needs changed (like the next session) or the driver needs to have the ability to understand the physics behind driving and adapt their driving style so that people and trackside bushes are not harmed
Again, I am not trying to be rude to anyone, I am just a bit surprised that his technique seems proper to some people, including himself.
And unless I am missing something these are track days not TTs, so it isn't so much about time as it is about driving the car properly. Nick could be driving at 7/10 excited to make it home to his familily with his car and self in one peice, the OP could care less about any of that and be hitting it at 10/10. If this where a wheel to wheel race who do you suppose would get to the end first?
And for the sake of argument let's say it was car setup, a car is a thing, it does not have a mind of its own. The setup either needs changed (like the next session) or the driver needs to have the ability to understand the physics behind driving and adapt their driving style so that people and trackside bushes are not harmed
Again, I am not trying to be rude to anyone, I am just a bit surprised that his technique seems proper to some people, including himself.
I think too many people these days are under the impression that zero drama results in the fastest lap time. That maybe true for highly aero dependant cars which take a huge hit in downforce as slip angles increase but I don't think that's true for cars with less aero. Ever see F1 footage from about 20-30 years ago? The fastest cars were all over the place. Maybe your buddy can go back in time and teach those guys how to drive more 'properly'...
12-05-2014, 08:12 AM
#23
Your making things way too difficult, all I need to do is look at the lines each driver is taking and steering input, the drama or lack of is just the end result.
As a note though, I can count the amount of spins I have had on one hand, this includes autox events. Now admittedly maybe it just means I am not the fastest driver, but I am content with doing what I do. In fact lots of our local clubs have a 2 strikes and your out rule (i.e. two times with 4 wheels off and your done for the day). They do this to protect other drivers as well as the offending driver. But I guess you would argue this is keeping a "good" driver from reaching their potential.
Anyhow to be quite honest I could care less what your or anyone else's opinion on the matter is, all that matters to me is how I choose to drive, which should be pretty clear by this point, so I am done
As a note though, I can count the amount of spins I have had on one hand, this includes autox events. Now admittedly maybe it just means I am not the fastest driver, but I am content with doing what I do. In fact lots of our local clubs have a 2 strikes and your out rule (i.e. two times with 4 wheels off and your done for the day). They do this to protect other drivers as well as the offending driver. But I guess you would argue this is keeping a "good" driver from reaching their potential.
Anyhow to be quite honest I could care less what your or anyone else's opinion on the matter is, all that matters to me is how I choose to drive, which should be pretty clear by this point, so I am done
12-05-2014, 08:17 AM
#24
This guy was having an epileptic seizure about 100 yards before each corner, upsetting the car, being shocked and surprised that the car was upset, reacting late and without consistency, and ultimately going around each corner totally different on each lap. The only thing missing was that I didn't see him reaching behind the seat to microwave a kabob.
I'm not saying I'm personally some champion or especially gifted. But I know a fist full of ham when I see one.
12-05-2014, 03:32 PM
#25
Originally Posted by shind3' timestamp='1417796733' post='23427950
Ever see F1 footage from about 20-30 years ago? The fastest cars were all over the place. Maybe your buddy can go back in time and teach those guys how to drive more 'properly'...
This guy was having an epileptic seizure about 100 yards before each corner, upsetting the car, being shocked and surprised that the car was upset, reacting late and without consistency, and ultimately going around each corner totally different on each lap. The only thing missing was that I didn't see him reaching behind the seat to microwave a kabob.
I'm not saying I'm personally some champion or especially gifted. But I know a fist full of ham when I see one.
https://www.chumpcar...results/134.pdf
...
It is a compilation of every mistake over the course of many, many track days.
Though... I guess since you guys never mess up and have great technique, you can do a compilation of all your slow laps.
*Not @ Nick*
12-06-2014, 02:07 AM
#26
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9gnm6URZCk&feature=youtu.be[/media]
what can i improve on? After the checkered flag, i start messing about
I know i have a lot to learn, just looking for a direction
The setup that day was front genron set to 700/750 everything else is stock
front tires 205 16's Z2 dunlops
rear tires 195 16's all seasons *my rear z2's were too bald for rain
alignment is -1.6 F
-0.01 F
5.9F
-2.0 R
+0.01
I also have 25% faster than ap1 steering. you can tell by the smaller steering inputs. Am i turning in too quickly as well?
Is it the positive rear toe? The super stiff front bar? both?
my lap times are generally consistent, but i still feel i'm leaving a lot out there. I THINK i have steady hands, but i'll let you guys be the judges of that.
As for spinning, idk. i'd say the car reacts more the throttle steering than wheel steering.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPe5caP3WMo[/media]
what can i improve on? After the checkered flag, i start messing about
I know i have a lot to learn, just looking for a direction
The setup that day was front genron set to 700/750 everything else is stock
front tires 205 16's Z2 dunlops
rear tires 195 16's all seasons *my rear z2's were too bald for rain
alignment is -1.6 F
-0.01 F
5.9F
-2.0 R
+0.01
I also have 25% faster than ap1 steering. you can tell by the smaller steering inputs. Am i turning in too quickly as well?
Is it the positive rear toe? The super stiff front bar? both?
my lap times are generally consistent, but i still feel i'm leaving a lot out there. I THINK i have steady hands, but i'll let you guys be the judges of that.
As for spinning, idk. i'd say the car reacts more the throttle steering than wheel steering.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPe5caP3WMo[/media]
12-06-2014, 04:29 PM
#28
Compilation video of my S2000 oversteering during the last six local track days. 2006 w/ CR suspension, early AP1 front swaybar(28.2mm), stock rear swaybar, 17x9 w/ 255 RS3s square. No aero mods.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHzSLJfSHqk
I have driven a friends AP1 S2000 with CR front suspension, stock AP1 rear suspension, AP2 rear swaybar, and 17x9 w/ 255 RS3s square, also we both run similar alignments and his car does not exhibit this oversteer tendency. Any thoughts?
-David
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHzSLJfSHqk
I have driven a friends AP1 S2000 with CR front suspension, stock AP1 rear suspension, AP2 rear swaybar, and 17x9 w/ 255 RS3s square, also we both run similar alignments and his car does not exhibit this oversteer tendency. Any thoughts?
-David
Turn in looks fine in a bunch of spots to me, so you were either trail braking too much or simply went into the turn too fast. Hard to say. If the setup has a strong tendency to oversteer I'd imagine trail braking would lead to a lot of drama.
I'm going to a square setup on my '06 next yr with the same swaybars, so I found the video interesting. I am running KWV3's though and will run some stiffer front springs to add some front stiffness. I'm hoping I can get the car pretty neutral with additional shock adjustments.
12-07-2014, 06:40 PM
#29
Registered User
12-08-2014, 06:37 AM
#30
Registered User
Right, it looks like people are really holding on to the 1st video. Let it go folks.
I've been talking about:
This. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQyegGA0JE
vs.
This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=mXu4x6GAhlI
I've been talking about:
This. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQyegGA0JE
vs.
This. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=mXu4x6GAhlI