cbender

So slow that I got lapped but a *lot*.... but I'm coming to the conclusion that you should be prohibited from ever owning a cattle prod.

speeeding

Chris,
Nice meeting you! Judging by the many chunks of tire missing from your left front, you must've been driving the hell out of that poor Neon!

Perry,
Nice meeting you too, and congratulations on your competition license!

I had a couple 1:59's this weekend. Maybe I might have done a little better w/o passengers and 225/245's, but hard to tell.... they were just too many cars.

TrueDrezzer

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cbender
Sear's Point is a lovely track, as lovely as everyone says.

monkeymaker

I know those questions aren't directed at me, but if I may be so bold as to answer...

Different run groups have different passing rules in different clubs. This weekend at Sears was a NASA event, so there was both wheel-to-wheel races and 4 "school" groups based on relative experience levels (HPDE 1, 2, 3, & 4). The racing was good stuff, ranging in class from the budget minded like me to the F1 driver development program known as Fran-Am.

The school groups ranged from the novices to the "advanced" drivers, though the judgment and car control skills exhibited by a few of the drivers in the "top" group were as questionable as in the novice groups I was in when I first started. To be fair though, it's gotta be really tough for any club to judge your ability and place you in the proper group without having a direct history with everyone.

As for the passing rules in the HPDE groups, the novices are quite restricted in every club I've run with, usually requiring point-by's in specific areas of the track, usually the straights only. The rules relax as the groups go up, and most of the clubs, including NASA, allow open passing without a point-by (though they are encouraged) anywhere on the track. It is usually made clear, however, that racing will not be tolerated in any group, and that courtesy is expected out on the track.

As for the general havoc out there, again, it depends on where you go, when you're there, and which club you're running with. This weekend was beyond packed. Sears Point has a massive paddock, and many of us had to park way up in the overflow lots. I thought there were way too many people there this weekend, and far too little track time, to justify the expense. Well, if I was racing I'd be singing another tune right about now, but there's far more value in running with groups like the NorCal Racing Club or SpeedVentures if it's HPDE you're looking for.

I can't speak to the quality of instruction through NASA, but I can tell you that every HPDE group was very, very crowded with way too many cars out there. To illuminate the point, I did not get a single clean lap until the very last session of the weekend. Add to this the lack of skill and general track awareness of some of the drivers and it made for some frustrating laps. Thankfully Sears allows local yellows instead of shutting the entire course down when a tow truck or other safety vehicle heads out (this is very unusual at California tracks I'm told) because there were quite a few broken & wadded up cars throughout the weekend, especially in the HPDE 4 group.

davepk

monkeymaker, Thanks for the frank report about last weekends event. I have experienced first hand a NASA event at SP such that you describe and as that implies it is a recurring theme for them. I was seriously considering going to this event but luckly other plans and previous experience got in the way. A Sears Point event is ussually a very expensive event to participate in especially when you get only 4 very crowded 20 minute sessions per day.

SpeedVentures, simply the best way to run the track.

cbender

Hi Guys,

My two cents? I'm disinclined to do a NASA event again, unless it's the only way to drive a particularly track, given my schedule and the availability of track opportunities. I say this having done three track days with NASA, one at Sear's Point (well, Infineon -- stupid name, btw) and two at Summit Point.

Reasons? (i) too MANY CARS (both in terms of too many cars on the track per session and in terms of the absolute number of cars across the day), (ii) too LITTLE TRACK TIME (four 20 minute sessions), (iii) too FRENETIC (mixing racing groups with HPDE), (iv) generally DISORGANIZED (just too much going on), and (v) inconsistent RULES.

That said, if they're the only way to get onto a new track, I'll suck it up, but I agree with Dave: SpeedVentures is great. My time at Buttonwillow in March was MUCH more pleasant.

CB

monkeymaker

SpeedVentures is very solid, offering excellent bang for the buck. They're run groups are more crowded than some others, and the level of organization and instruction is a little unrefined, but it's hard to go wrong there if what you're looking for is a fun group of people that enjoy a stripped down, straight up track event.

However, SV is not the only game in town. I also highly recommend Unlimited Laps and the NCRC for HPDE events with lotsa track time. NCRC is the group that IMHO does the best overall job of providing good organization, quality instruction, & ample track time; in fact they even offer time trials!

The highest level of instruction I've found has been with ThunderHill's HPDE \"street schools,\" though the track time is a tad less than you'd want and the track is slowed down with cone-chicanes.