miamirice

I got a few problems here with your statements: First off: hitting something at 80-100mph on a typical US track will not yield you "good bye". Tracks are set up with tire walls, movable walls....no solid poles...etc. if you want to see a pic of the total led Giardo that had brake failure at homestead last weekend doing triple digit speed, I can post it. The car was totaled, the wall moved and the driver walked away.

When you say "seat, harness, Hans...." I assume you accidentally omitted "roll hoop or full cage" because we all know that being harnessed Ito a seat and not having roll over protection is a recipe for a spinal compression. So then what about fire?.....your opinion on this part is at odds with many experts. OEM stuff is research and proven. A modern car on street tires is lots safer on track than driving down a 2-way undevided road on a Saturday night.

What a experience are you speaking from when you say "let me tell you from experience".?

No I am not a trauma surgeon like your wife. I do however work in the OR at Ryder Trauma Center in Miami (for 20 years). It's we're the Army trains right before deploying to the Middle East front line. It's also where BMW has there full time U.S. MVC safety researchers.

Track wise I have been lapping various cars for 15 years, racing enduro and sprints for 5 years and instruct with various organizations when time allows. If you have specifics let's hear them. I am no expert but I read what I can find regarding safety. Everybody can benefit from safety discussions.

s2000ellier

please post the lambo hms video

miamirice

https://goo.gl/photos/oGJNJXHLEBQ6YXmB8
How it came out


https://goo.gl/photos/zwuzvVwAMsKQBu3i9

Turn 6

s2000ellier

My friend had a brake line failure (oem lines) at that same turn! he was able to use the ebrake to make the turn though and make it to the pits. T6 brake zone is easy triple digits in an s2k, i can only imagine how fast a lambo was doing... Glad he walked away.

SlowTeg

I don't think anyone is brushing it off, I just think the risk is way overblown. As others have said, the OEM safety equipment is PROVEN and tested thoroughly. Hitting a wall at 80mph or what not most certainly doesn't mean "goodbye." It certainly CAN mean goodbye, but it's certainly not guaranteed. Cale dying at Summit Main was a combination of several things. I believe Summit has added a tire wall and some other safety enhancements since that accident years ago.

Regarding safety, I think I have a lot of safety equipment. A BBK up front, urge rear rotors, stainless lines, a rollbar, and I thoroughly inspect my car. I really don't have much/anything in the way of power adders, just an intake, TP, flashpro. I consider brake upgrades a safety upgrade as the oem brakes are simply insufficient for a square setup. Keeping your car in tip top shape is also incredibly important. It's worth noting that Cale died because of a failed OEM rubber brake line, which is why I consider stainless lines a safety item.

Ultimately, this is a tomayto vs. tomahto argument. I know plenty of guys that track w/o a harness/hans (many late model fast cars) and I don't see a problem with it. The OEM safety equipment is tested and proven. Heck, if tracking required a harness/hans you'd have a whole lot fewer cars out on track.

bdo

On a first track day?? What the? An HPDE instructor's #1 job when instructing a newbie should be to keep them level-headed, aware, and out of trouble, and make sure he drives his car home in the same condition he brought it in. As we get more comfortable, we may develop a bad habit of "reminding" someone that we'd like a point by. But we also gain a sense of when it's a bad idea and when it's an especially bad idea, and hopefully avoid the latter, and we're less likely to panic and go deer-in-the-headlights if the driver in front of us does something unexpected. Point being, we KNOW it's not a great habit, and if we choose do it anyway we are cautious about it. Sorry for the rant but it really bugs me when instructors teach first-timers unsafe habits from day 1.

Apex1.0

After many track days, and instructors, looking back now I would say my first instructer was not dangerous but competitive. He quickly assessed me and my car and pushed me out of my comfort zone. I don't think he had a death wish. I think he pushed me to be a better driver.

But your point is well taken. There is little downside to being more conservative with a first timer. Instructors have to quickly asses what they are working with, and playing it safe is never bad policy.

Still it was a great memory and even to this day if I see that instructer we always talk about it.

King Tut

I have hit a wall at 85 MPH with all OEM safety equipment in an S2000. There was pain involved, and I could have walked away, but 5 hours later I walked out of the hospital with a script for pain meds. I popped a few Tylenol and drove home the 8 hours.

devildust

I would try TNiA another time but only to run in advanced, Intermediate was dangerous with many very bad drivers when I ran it last year. I was trying to get a point by from a very slow mustang driver when another mustang passed both of us obv with no point by, and did he get flagged? Nope.
This would be my last resort track day, if I want to track and cant find anything else.