miamirice

It's going to be so varied by region. Here in South Florida, the advanced groups was 5-8 cars. All were either guys shaking down their race cars or a few instructors with new toys like a GT-R on street tires that have other dedicated race cars and just want a couple sessions to run on street tires. I was driving my s2000 street car and the only cars I could play with were spec miatas. If you are an advanced driver and looking for just a few sessions to dial in ajustments on a car, bed pads, heat cycle some tires, it's great to have a short and cheap day like this, if you are looking for seat time, I can see where any abbreviated segment from a yellow flag or something could prove very frustrating. The intermediate group had at least one fender bender and maybe an issue in another session. That combined with the traffic that will surely occur in the intermediate group is something to think about.

King Tut

There is nothing wrong with the OEM safety equipment. It kept me safe in my first wreck, and you can't expect the entry point to track days to be spending $2000+ on safety equipment.

blueosprey90

Good grief! Point bys - the bane of our existence!

I've been to quite a few HPDE events and have raced in maybe 40 vintage small bore events. In HPDE, I run intermediate given that my car is stock. No one ever suggested in any HPDE classroom setting that I've attended that in order to get a point by, you needed to park yourself on the car in front's bumper. And in vintage, the primary reason to park yourself on someone's bumper is when you need the draft to help you make the pass - or if you still don't have the power, to maybe make the guy in front nervous enough to bobble a shift or make some other mistake. Otherwise you just pass the slower car.

If the guy is too inexperienced in HPDE to be watching his mirrors, planting yourself on his bumper at 85 mph or more - or even worse, in the corner - is surely going to freak him out when he catches a glimpse of you. He'll be holding on for dear life with a death grip so tight that he'll never be able to pry that hand of the wheel to give you the point that you so desperately want. Get in his mirrors so he sees you, sure, but no real need to be on top of him.

I wonder if a group like NASA would ever move you up to advanced if this is how you drove.

I agree that there's always some knucklehead that is remiss at giving a point by. I deal with those guys by getting to the grid early so that I'm out in front. And if I'm later coming up on the guy, I'll give him a chance, but eventually I'll just "take" the point by that he didn't give. I'll do it safely. No big deal. I'm there to relax and have fun.

I was recently watching a video of one of the races at the Goodwood Revival. I think it was last year's Saint Mary's Cup race. It's a two leg race, usually with a professional driver on day one and the owner of the car (or other amateur driver) on day two. Two Cortinas and an Alfa are going balls to the wall lap after lap in a very tight and exciting race for the lead. Flat out, nose to tail, tail to nose, up on the curbing and sliding through every corner. Every once in a while, when the Alfa is in third, he starts aggressively flashing his headlights, suggesting to the cars in front that they should get out of his way and move over to the slow lane - which they don't. It was pretty funny. I think he must have had a switch that he could throw so that his lights would be flashing automatically. Suffice it to say, the boys in front weren't giving any point bys.


I suppose I've rambled far off topic with this post. But Cheers! Get out on track and have fun. If you see me, no need to get on my tail. I'll see you and will point you by.

arsenal

Thank you for taking the time to type the response!!

SlowTeg

I'm not even sure how to respond to this long rambling response, but I'll just keep it short. I don't drive like a "dick" on track because I care about my car too much, but staying on their bumper IS what you're supposed to do. Maybe it's been a long time since you've ridden with an instructor but I used to have instructors tell me to "get on their as$" when you want to pass, so clearly it's expected. No intermediate driver should be scared of someone on their butt in the turns or they'd be in novice. Also, you think staying on someone's bumper is bad yet passing them without a point is ok..? I think the difference is that TNIA isn't a "track day," but rather a "quasi track day" or whatever you want to call it. Still though, given how "regular" track days follow different "rules," this can certainly cause some confusion/problems for some people.

Clearly, the biggest issue isn't point bys like I said, but rather track awareness. I'd rather not some idiot slam on his brakes when he sees a red flag coming around a blind turn (or even worse completely miss the flag). Without track experience or an instructor riding along there can be very bad consequences for some mistakes.

SlowTeg

^What he said. Nothing wrong with OEM safety equipment.

Apex1.0

I remember my first track day and the instructor told me to get up on the next car. I moved with in a car length, and the instructed yelled at me... "What are you doing back here?! I said get up on him!!"

I back off if the person in front of my seems erratic, dangerous or has no s.a.

One thing I will say is I am not a fan of taking point bys. I don't pass until I get at least a semi-clear point by. No point by, no pass. It's hpde, not w2w.

SlowTeg

Sounds like my instructors as well. If you're a car length behind them many will yell at you for being too far.

I completely agree and am the same way regarding erratic drivers. I value my car too much although I know many drivers who won't be as cautious. If the guy has such poor S.A. that he doesn't give you the point or brakes oddly in turns, you can't expect him to not do something stupid and go completely offline or just be erratic with steering and play bumper cars.

SkiLLeDS2000

Wow, you guys. Haha

Let me tell you from experience, you want a seat,harness and Hans on any track. If 2,000 is too much for your safety, then you do not have your priorities straight.

My wife happens to be a trauma surgeon at the hospital that covers both Summit and now Dominion. The same hospital Cale died in a few years back.

If you hit something doing 100 or even 80 with your standard seatbelt and airbag, it was nice knowing you. To say being on a track at high speeds with oem safety equipment is ok is mind numbing to me, due to the countless stories I've heard over the years. Plus, it's dangerous to say since obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't know you guys were physicians that deal with crashes all of the time! What hospital do you work at? Let me know.

Tracking is a serious game and if you just brush it off as such, it leaves me speechless.

Mike, I was actually shocked you had nothing in your car. I highly recommend going down the safety route. I don't want to hear you end up in my wife's TICU for no reason.

I've said my peace. I guess I'll do me and you guys do you. Lol.

arsenal

As we have said before, this type of event is different than the typical track day / HPDE.