Penforhire

Jason, I generally agree with your proposed class structure. I believe ANY proposal will have people who disagree.

One cause for disagreement is how well the local hot shoes do in a particular car. If you watch any Nationals champion they make it look like their car should be up-classed. And it seems many of the fast guys pick new models and force a reputation on a car that the CAR may not earn. Could Gary Thomason be faster in a different AS car? Maybe. Probably (say a Boxter?).

In our S2k's, when would I beat Lori Robertson's C4 vette? Not likely in this lifetime, but I'll still try. Are C4's okay in AS? Probably. And the advantage seems very course-dependent, we just have to be better drivers.

I felt pretty well abused for two years driving a GSR against ITR's int he same class. It got to the point of saying to myself that I did fine just to stay within 2 seconds of the experienced ITR's. I could not believe SCCA'd leave the class overdog alone in 2000. I felt my GSR was matched up just fine to the new Celica GTS, thank you very much.

I think both Regional and National championship times should be used to assess the capabilities of each car and class accordingly. Prosolos are anomalous since launches are not as critical for standard Solo2.

I guess I'll keep my eyes open for the Sports Car edition they publish the lists in and have my pen ready to add my two-cents to SCCA org.

CG

I think the C4's should be split up like the Miata's are. The 84's - 92/93 sure aren't as fast as the 95/96's. Overall I agree with Jason. The S2000 fits into the "new" BS much better than it does in AS.

j2k

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CG
[B]I think the C4's should be split up like the Miata's are. The 84's - 92/93 sure aren't as fast as the 95/96's...

CG

[QUOTE]Originally posted by j2k
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by CG
[b]I think the C4's should be split up like the Miata's are. The 84's - 92/93 sure aren't as fast as the 95/96's...

jgoeke

I agree to a certain extent. I don't think the RX7TT or Boxster should be moved down to this new S2 or lower SS class. These cars still run competitive SS times. The C4 is on the fence and depending on the course like Jason says, this car could dominate. On some the S2000 would be competitive.

I envision SS keeping the RX7TT, Boxster S for sure. The new lower SS would then be: S2000, BMW M Coupe and roaster (pre 2002) and other also rans in SS now.
---JCG

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]I have heard from reliable sources that next season the S2000 will go into the lower Super-Stock with... get this...

SoloVR6

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]In my opinion, here is how the classing should look for S through B-Stock:

SS: Viper, Z06 Vette, 911(996), 911 Turbo(2wd),

j2k

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoloVR6
...Two things, about the NSX and Supra Turbo, is the NSX really that fast or is it a cost issue like the viper?

jgoeke

I like your line up Jason. I would add pre 2002 M coupes and roadsters, that and I would move the NSX to the new AS. I would prefer it to what is proposed. However, I can see how they came up with the current proposal, expect for the Boxster S.

They list the RX7TT in SS. The Boxster S clearly belongs with the RX7TT. It has been shown to be at least equal, if not faster than the RX7TT. It would be down right stupid to move one without the other, and the S2000 or any other car listed in the new AS could never run with those cars on any consitant basis, so that leave it in SS or with your stucture.

PS. Send me your draft and I'll send you mine :-).
(joe_goeke@hotmail.com)
---JCG


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]There are other problems with this proposal... I feel the M-Coupe/M-Roadster should be in the same class as the E36 M3, however the former is in A-Stock and the Latter remains in B-Stock (old A-Stock)?

Jason Saini

The thing I like about my lineup (shameless self affirmation follows) is that it keeps the RX7tt comepetitive... It's a great car, and there are allot of autocrossers that have one and are getting ready to dump them because of the Z06. 1/2 that I've talked to are leaning toward Z06, the other 1/2 to the S2000. I have only heard one talking about a Boxster.

I also agree with you about the NSX, Joe... and after reading Jason's post I think some 911's need to be shifted. I'll redo my list and send you my draft!

RacerX

<self-interest>
Don't move it!
</self-interest>

From what I've been hearing, the Z06 is a "killer." For those of us that go to National Tour and Pro events, it seems they all have this opinion. As these are people I trust, I trust that opinion. Therefore, the RX7tt and older corvettes should be moved down. However, the Boxter S is a matter of debate in this respect, depending on performance. IMO, the s2000 cannot compete against the Boxter S given equal drivers. The numbers are further apart than they appear on paper when it comes to autox. M roadsters (pre 315hp), OTOH, seem to be in the same class as s2000s. The numbers are a tenth here, 5 feet there sort of thing, which is easily made up for in the adjustability differences of our car vs. the BMW (double wishbone vs. struts). The Boxter is an excellent competitor to the s2000, and has comparative strengths and weaknesses. I haven't had the opportunity to compare equally-skilled drivers in C4 Corvettes and the s2000, so I cannot make a comment there.

My opinion is that our AS is not broken. There is a great deal of competition in the class in recent years, of newer cars. As opposed to SS, for example. If one looks in the back of the SCCA rule book, one can see past Nationals winners. They are quite interesting to read and notice that lots of classes (such as SS) have the same type of car winning over and over again. AS has the potential to be a truly competitive class as long as the SEB doesn't muck it up. By moving the s2000 out of AS, all that will do is make the s2k uncompetitive and reduce the class diversity.

On a related note:
Jason - stop going so fast! You'll get us put into A-Mod!
:-)