Jason Saini

I have heard from reliable sources that next season the S2000 will go into the lower Super-Stock with... get this... The RX7tt, the BoxsterS and the C4 Vette.

I know for a fact that we can run with those cars in certain cases - but other courses it's just not possible. The CenDiv I just ran this past weekend, I was 2.6 off Chris Dvorak's RX7 time. If I had driven my best I could have split the difference (1.3 off) but there is NO WAY AN S2000 could have run his times. There was a short straight that was just too fast for 1st gear, and just too slow for 2nd. You spent the whole straight under VTEC. I watched the RX7 in that same little straight and it was on boost the whole way. He got at least 10 more mph in that little straight. There were a couple other slow places that took us out of VTEC.

My point is... if we can stay in VTEC, we can hang with those current SS cars. But the RX7, BoxsterS and C4 Vette all have gobs of TORQUE. If we get knocked out of VTEC it's over.

We need to write letters to the SEB and SCAC... Also, I'd like to hear some other opinions on this. I'm not panicking, but I don't like this move, and I'd like to try and do something about it. But if it happens, I'll stay in the car and try hard, and just accept that there will be frustrating weekends where you just can't get there.

Post your impressions of this proposed move...

Gregg Lee

It's hard to start writing letters until a proposal is published. Are others to move as well? If boxster moves also then it's a different kind of argument. Are there changes to SS jr/sr split from last proposal? You need to see the whole picture.

Remember this is a rule change. The steps are SCAC recommendation, SEB vote at SEB meeting, publish for comment, another SEB meeting, republish with changes as SEB minutes to go to BoD, BoD approval. In the past the SEB has been reluctant to finalize before Nat Championship, but you may have noticed item in BoD minutes urging Solo to get rules schedule in synch with other divisions, which means earlier.

If your source is SCAC member, remember the SEB doesn't always take their recommendations. A is for Advisory. If source is not SCAC, SEB or Howard Duncan, then it's probably not reliable. (The person may be reliable, but the info may not be.)

For the moment, you could do a little research, like what do the SCAC and SEB members drive. It's politically hard to vote to move a competitor.

The other is fight fire with fire. Obvious proponents of moving the S2000 are Porsche drivers. If you can marshall an even semi-persuasive argument that the Boxster or 968 should go to SS Jr. then start sending that. The risk is you get us all moved, so be careful. Or come up with a new comprehensive proposal for BS, AS, SS jr, and SS sr. I include BS since some AS cars may need to go down rather than others up.

I just send Howard an email asking what the schedule for the Stock reclassification proposal is. None published in minutes.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]I have heard from reliable sources that next season the S2000 will go into the lower Super-Stock with... get this...

SoloVR6

As a potential owner I would not be pleased with this move.

Granted the S2000 is probably going to rein over AS again this year I do not think it warrants a change in class. Say they do split SS, what is going into SSjr? I can possibly see the S2000 running with the Boxster and the LT1/L98 C4 Vette , but not the BoxsterS, LT4/GS Vette or the RX7tt. It is a big time torque issue thus making it a course dependent issue.

Anyone remember what happened when the Viper first came out. It bumped directly to ASP. Not just because of it's potential performance but also because the SCCA didn't want a $70,000 car to be "the" car for SS. Now we are on the other end, the S2000 is a good $10,000 cheaper than the hot cars in AS and SS with the exception of the MR2. This makes the only other car capable of challenging the S2000 in AS a Boxster, and not many people will pick a Boxster over a S2000 taking into consideration the bang for the buck factor. The MR2 Turbo is a great car but it is getting old and maybe the prices on a used M3 will come down but they still cost more than a NEW S2000.

IMO the SCCA is penalizing drivers as much as cars. I mean how may classes is a certain BMW M3 going to be in? And why haven't they moved the Miata out of BS? That car is aparently dominating the class. They never moved the Neon out of DS and it dominated the class.

I wish I had more constructive ways to fix the problem rather than to rant about it. I am open to suggestions.

Penforhire

I assume you're talking about the proposed numbered classes?

Similar debates rage over the ITR still being in GS (one big reason I got out of my GSR and into an S2K). I'd be more afraid of the RX7tt than the Boxter S, undecided on the Vettes (seems to me that without mods their tails wag more than ours).

Jason Saini

What I posted is not released by the SCCA yet... The source is certainly reliable - When they release the proposal for next year's classing structure, this is what it will look like. And yes, this was the whole numbered class proposal that was bounced around last year. Look for it to be released soon in Sports Car magazine for member input. I just wanted to get the discussion going among Stook owners ASAP so we can 'plan our defense.'

Quote:

I'd be more afraid of the RX7tt than the Boxter S

Be afraid of the Boxster... be VERY afraid! Rob Falkner has been beating Z06's, RX7's and everything else in his path in a BoxsterS on stock shocks!

Gregg Lee

Howard just made it back to the office from Petersberg and gave me a quick email reply. He said the Stock Proposal will be in June Fastrack. It is not as of a couple minutes ago on the web site. Keep watching here:

http://www.scca.org/news/tech/seb/index.html

Howard said it should appear any time.

Using the new naming system where SS is split in to SS and AS, then AS becomes BS, etc., he recalled that the S2000 will show up in AS with the C4(1984-92)Corvettes. He said he did not recall others from memory, but that those two were the "benchmark" cars in the class. You would think he'd remember the RX7TT if it were there, but who knows. We will just have to see the proposal.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]I have heard from reliable sources that next season the S2000 will go into the lower Super-Stock with... get this...

Jason Saini

Thanks for the digging, Gregg... If it's the C4, we can compete. Darrel Padberg was 1.3 seconds ahead of me in a C4, and he's a phenomenal driver. I could have gone 1.3 faster. My only concern is that on some days the C4 has shown the potential to beat the Rx7tt... So I would assume there will be days the C4 will easily be able to beat the S2000. We'll see how the proposal looks when it shows up, then go from there with our discussion. Whoever sees it first, post here!

Jason Saini

Well, it's now posted at Gregg's link... and the BoxsterS is in A-Stock, with the S2000 and the C4 Vette, including the ZR1. My only problem with this is that the BoxsterS is winning right now in SS... why is it being moved down a class? AND you have a seperate class for the Boxster and BoxsterS. So we have two stock-classes that will be dominated by $70k and $58k cars, and we render a $32k car uncompetitive. I'll be the first to say I don't think the S2000 can keep up with the BoxsterS on the autocross course.

If you look at B-Stock on the proposal (the old A-Stock) it pretty much looks like A-Stock before the S2000 was put there. So we are going back to a class where MR2t and 968's (Both old tech) are truly the cars to have, because both have repeatedly proven thier ability to beat the regular Boxster.

My opinion is that A-Stock isn't broken... don't fix it. S2000's are beaten still by MR2's, and I strongly feel that Paul Kozlak in his 968 could still be beating Stooks on occasion.

So why stuff the S2000 with cars that will potentially dominate it? The C4 Vettes and BoxsterS have torque... there are certain courses where they will kill the Stook.

So let the letter writing begin... and lets have a discussion here on the best way to approach it in the letter. I feel strongly that this is an innapropriate class change, but all I (or any of us) can do is write a letter, make our case and hope that we are convincing. If not, then we'll just have to try our best next season!

Gregg Lee

Notice there is a note in the text with the proposal that the Boxster S is being considered for both AS and SS - to be decided after National Season.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]Well, it's now posted at Gregg's link... and the BoxsterS is in A-Stock, with the S2000 and the C4 Vette, including the ZR1.

Jason Saini

There are other problems with this proposal... I feel the M-Coupe/M-Roadster should be in the same class as the E36 M3, however the former is in A-Stock and the Latter remains in B-Stock (old A-Stock)? I think those cars should have been combined, as they have the same engines/weight and the M variants have inferior rear suspension.

In my opinion, here is how the classing should look for S through B-Stock:

SS: Viper, Z06 Vette, 911(996), 911 Turbo(2wd), 930(2wd), M3(E46), M5(00+), Lotus Esprit Turbo, Acura NSX.

AS: Corvette C4, ZR1, BoxsterS, Mazda RX7tt, Supra Turbo, etc.

BS: S2000, M3(E36), M-Coupe/Roadster, Z3/6cyl, Boxster, 968, MR2t, 944, etc... basically all other current A-Stockers.

This serves the SCCA's purpose of creating a class for the big boys at the top, and keeps all those RX7tt's competitive in a class with the C4 vettes. There are tons of people that have these cars. It also makes it more desirable to run an M-Coupe in autocross.

Does my idea make sense? Does the SCCA's proposal make more sense? What are some of your thoughts?