Racing Harness Installation - Information and Recommendations
06-07-2007, 07:49 AM
#61
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Jun 6 2007, 11:10 PM
Left side? You mean the outside? Most people just use the stock location. I actually hired the guy who welded in my roll bar to also install the seats and harnesses, so I can't say if he had some problems to overcome or not, but I know he just used the stock seat belt mount point.
On the inside, you have to drill a hole in the driveshaft tunnel.
On the inside, you have to drill a hole in the driveshaft tunnel.
06-07-2007, 07:50 AM
#62
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[QUOTE=Chris_Lum,Jun 7 2007, 12:56 AM] where do you guys mount the eyebolt for the left side lap belt? i tried installing it into the stock lower seat belt location on the frame, but since the mounting point is so low to the floorboard, the eye
06-07-2007, 11:58 AM
#63
Originally Posted by tinkfist,Jun 7 2007, 08:50 AM
My left side mount uses the OEM mounting location. I re-used the OEM bolt minus a few of the shims 
06-09-2007, 07:11 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by cbender,Jun 6 2007, 09:08 PM
Having installed harnesses in several cars now, including most recently the Lotus and before that, the S2000, I'll add only that I fully concur with Mike's conclusion. Installing a bar in the S2K's a great idea -- for a track-only car. In a street driven car, it's a risk, and probably, net-net, far more dangerous than the rollover protection it offers on the track. The sad fact is: if you want to spend a lot of time at the track, the S2K's the wrong car, unless you're willing to own a trailer-queen that never sees public roads. My two cents, others may feel differently. That's fine.
Thanks
06-09-2007, 12:16 PM
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IMO, there are three issues to consider when using a harness without a rollbar for street driving:
The first is legal. I'm not sure of the laws in your jurisdiction, but I'm pretty sure that using a harness that doesn't comply with DOT-rules is illegal. (I'm not certain, but I believe the DOT-rules are primarily concerned with the latch mechanism; i.e., it must have a red button, be of a certain size, be labled, etc.) Whether you care about breaking the law (or at least that sort of law) is up to you. Whether you'd actually be ticketed for it is another question altogether, and I can't speak to that issue. You can buy DOT-compliant harnesses (Schroth sells one), but I believe that most after-market harnesses don't meet the requirements.
The second is whether you can identify appropriately located and appropriately secure mounting points. It's been several years since I last ripped out the interior of an S2000, but my recollection is that there's no obvious way of mouting a harness using the existing sheetmetal behind the seats. I feel strongly that any harness that isn't properly secured using proper hardware with an appropriate distribution of loads IS UNSAFE and should never be used. But I can't speak to this issue, as I don't really remember enough about what's in the bulkhead behind the seats. Before you just decide for yourself that the existing sheet metal can absorb the loads (HUGE -- often thousands of pounds) generated by an accident, consult a professional. There are complexities involving how the loads are bourne (in shear, in tension) and distributed, as well as the material strenghts of the sheetmetal and your mounting hardware.
The third is whether you want to risk securing your body in place without rollover protection. There's a lot of debate about whether your body can actually move out of the way in the event of a rollover, but there is an argument to be made that the stock belts let your body slide sideways enough to give your head space when the shiny side goes up. Me, I've never known what to make of that argument, but it's merits thinking about.
Me, personally, I think you're a lot SAFER with the existing stock seatbelts in combination with an airbag than you are with a harness without a rollbar. So, to answer your question, I wouldn't to what you're proposing. For several reasons, including (i) the risk of hyperextending your neck without a HANS device, (ii) the risk that you won't always tighten the harness properly (believe it or not, lots of folks do it wrong; you've got to get the crotch strap tight, then get the lapbelts secured really well, and finally do the shoulder straps), and (iii) the fact that harnesses are a pain in the butt to use for daily driving.
But that's just me. Everyone's got to find their comfort zone. But I'd NEVER install (or use) a 4-point harness, ever, on the street or track. I'll wear stock belts first.
Good luck,
CB
The first is legal. I'm not sure of the laws in your jurisdiction, but I'm pretty sure that using a harness that doesn't comply with DOT-rules is illegal. (I'm not certain, but I believe the DOT-rules are primarily concerned with the latch mechanism; i.e., it must have a red button, be of a certain size, be labled, etc.) Whether you care about breaking the law (or at least that sort of law) is up to you. Whether you'd actually be ticketed for it is another question altogether, and I can't speak to that issue. You can buy DOT-compliant harnesses (Schroth sells one), but I believe that most after-market harnesses don't meet the requirements.
The second is whether you can identify appropriately located and appropriately secure mounting points. It's been several years since I last ripped out the interior of an S2000, but my recollection is that there's no obvious way of mouting a harness using the existing sheetmetal behind the seats. I feel strongly that any harness that isn't properly secured using proper hardware with an appropriate distribution of loads IS UNSAFE and should never be used. But I can't speak to this issue, as I don't really remember enough about what's in the bulkhead behind the seats. Before you just decide for yourself that the existing sheet metal can absorb the loads (HUGE -- often thousands of pounds) generated by an accident, consult a professional. There are complexities involving how the loads are bourne (in shear, in tension) and distributed, as well as the material strenghts of the sheetmetal and your mounting hardware.
The third is whether you want to risk securing your body in place without rollover protection. There's a lot of debate about whether your body can actually move out of the way in the event of a rollover, but there is an argument to be made that the stock belts let your body slide sideways enough to give your head space when the shiny side goes up. Me, I've never known what to make of that argument, but it's merits thinking about.
Me, personally, I think you're a lot SAFER with the existing stock seatbelts in combination with an airbag than you are with a harness without a rollbar. So, to answer your question, I wouldn't to what you're proposing. For several reasons, including (i) the risk of hyperextending your neck without a HANS device, (ii) the risk that you won't always tighten the harness properly (believe it or not, lots of folks do it wrong; you've got to get the crotch strap tight, then get the lapbelts secured really well, and finally do the shoulder straps), and (iii) the fact that harnesses are a pain in the butt to use for daily driving.
But that's just me. Everyone's got to find their comfort zone. But I'd NEVER install (or use) a 4-point harness, ever, on the street or track. I'll wear stock belts first.
Good luck,
CB
06-09-2007, 02:24 PM
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Thanks a lot for your input. I agree with your comments, I just wanted a second opinion / confirmation. Well now instead of spending thousands of dollars on seats and equipment / installation, I think I will get some other parts instead.
Thanks again,
~Allen
Thanks again,
~Allen
06-09-2007, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightstriker,Jun 9 2007, 05:24 PM
Thanks a lot for your input. I agree with your comments, I just wanted a second opinion / confirmation. Well now instead of spending thousands of dollars on seats and equipment / installation, I think I will get some other parts instead.
In any case, good luck.
CB
06-09-2007, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightstriker,Jun 9 2007, 03:24 PM
Well now instead of spending thousands of dollars on seats and equipment / installation, I think I will get some other parts instead.
07-06-2007, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alejo,May 25 2007, 03:36 PM
it is SO much easier to install a 6 point with 2 bolts on either side of the centerline.
Based on many of your comments, I share this attachment idea for the people commenting on this post to reply on. It is to provide attachment for the 5th and 6th point terminals for my harness [yes my seat has been modified to allow these two belts to pass through the seat-bottom] The part will be made from 1018-low-carbon steel and its fastening locations [to the chassis/floor] are designed to easily straddle the structural rail that is nearly on center with the OEM Seat.
1. Comments [on above] are very welcome this week
2. I still see no easy way to attach the lap belts without some fudging with the OEM frame and possibly piggybaking those two attachments onto the rear seat mounting points - - and even still that looked less than ideal when I had a lot of that appart last weekend. Again, your comments probably be helpful to me.
Thanks, Jeff