Question for the HPDErs
01-18-2008, 06:54 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Jan 18 2008, 12:24 PM
That all depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is your definition of "significant".
It is a fact that rollover accidents are very rare on the street (and pretty rare on the track). It is a fact that having a hard piece of metal near your head is dangerous.
But "significantly increased risk" (or not) depends on a lot of factors that each person has to consider for himself.
It is a fact that rollover accidents are very rare on the street (and pretty rare on the track). It is a fact that having a hard piece of metal near your head is dangerous.
But "significantly increased risk" (or not) depends on a lot of factors that each person has to consider for himself.
My head is so far from the bar when sitting in my car that I feel that in my case the roll bar doesn't pose significant (obviously by my definition) additional risk. The OP will have to judge for himself what he considers acceptable or significant and take action accordingly.
I'm not sure how else I can rephrase it.
01-18-2008, 06:58 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Vitt,Jan 18 2008, 08:38 AM
I dont' have any data to back this up, but I would think that by using higher density padding Like the ones on this link would make it even less dangerous to drive on the street with a roll bar in case of an accident. I believe you can use this padding under the more common roll bar padding that is out there, which I think would reduce the risk of major injury should your head come in contact with the roll bar in case of an accident. Any thoughts?
Now I don't remember seeing any data to that effect either so I don't purport to be able to determine if those persons are correct or not, just passing along some opinions that I've seen stated before.
01-18-2008, 07:00 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Vitt,Jan 18 2008, 03:38 AM
I dont' have any data to back this up, but I would think that by using higher density padding Like the ones on this link would make it even less dangerous to drive on the street with a roll bar in case of an accident. I believe you can use this padding under the more common roll bar padding that is out there, which I think would reduce the risk of major injury should your head come in contact with the roll bar in case of an accident. Any thoughts?
01-18-2008, 07:56 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by Vitt,Jan 18 2008, 11:16 AM
Yes, I actually used high density padding on the front upper bar on my track GSR. It's dense, but close to concrete? I don't think so. And I used the regular padding as well.
And FYI, I started my post saying I don't have any data to back it up. And I asked for thoughts about it. Go back and read it again.
And FYI, I started my post saying I don't have any data to back it up. And I asked for thoughts about it. Go back and read it again.
Can you squish it between your fingers? I can't, hence the concrete as far as your fingers can tell statement.
My post wasn't offensive, don't get all bent out of shape. You should know if you've seen it that people that don't have first hand experience with roll bar padding just hear "foam" and "padding" and don't understand how hard this stuff really is. It's not designed to be a cushion, it's designed to deform and decelerate a helmet with a force that does not cause brain damage before it hits a metal bar that would decelerate it with a force that does.
I would venture that if your head ever hit this padding, it would deform just as much as the padding
Better than a metal bar without a doubt, but still not safe in my opinion.
01-18-2008, 08:19 AM
#46
^^ Can't squish it between my fingers but I can cut through it with a utility knife, Hence, unlike cement. I guess it comes down to chances and probability depending on various factors involved (as mentioned in the other posts).
My mistake on the post is that I should have put in a question form instead of statement form. But my point is, if you're going to use a roll bar on the streets (as I might in the future), does using this padding under the softer roll bar padding decrease the probability of head injury as opposed to using the softer padding alone?
My mistake on the post is that I should have put in a question form instead of statement form. But my point is, if you're going to use a roll bar on the streets (as I might in the future), does using this padding under the softer roll bar padding decrease the probability of head injury as opposed to using the softer padding alone?
01-18-2008, 11:39 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by FormulaRedline,Jan 18 2008, 02:27 PM
I'm sure this under soft padding would be "safer" (not the same as safe)
....and it never will be. You'll never be able to define anything as safe without being subjective. How you personally define "safe" is solely dependent on your risk aversiveness and is bounded on the low end by the organization you run with. Track car safety is a continuum that starts with driving recklessly without a seat belt or helmet and approaches simply not driving at all.
01-18-2008, 11:55 AM
#49
Originally Posted by FormulaRedline,Jan 18 2008, 11:27 AM
We'll obviously it's not really concrete 
I'm sure this under soft padding would be "safer" (not the same as safe) than soft padding alone, but only because it happens not to be a steel tube.
I'm not saying I wouldn't put a roll bar in my street car, but I am saying I wouldn't feel safe if my head could contact that bar, no matter what padding was around it. My guess (I still need to see an S2000 bar in person) is that some shorter people would be ok. If I were you, I would try to sit in someone else's car and see how your head would fare. Within the limits of your seat belt, try to touch the bar with your head. If you can make it...that's not good.
Keep in mind that it's a trade off. In getting a bar you accept a medium chance of saving your life in a low probability (assuming light-medium track use) roll over situation in trade for a medium chance of brain damage/death in a relatively high probability (assuming daily driver) fender bender that would have left you unscathed normally. Most people generally do not make this trade in a street car since the fender bender is more likely than the roll over, with equally dire consequences. Either way you could die, which is of course why it's not a light topic here.
I'm sure this under soft padding would be "safer" (not the same as safe) than soft padding alone, but only because it happens not to be a steel tube.
I'm not saying I wouldn't put a roll bar in my street car, but I am saying I wouldn't feel safe if my head could contact that bar, no matter what padding was around it. My guess (I still need to see an S2000 bar in person) is that some shorter people would be ok. If I were you, I would try to sit in someone else's car and see how your head would fare. Within the limits of your seat belt, try to touch the bar with your head. If you can make it...that's not good.
Keep in mind that it's a trade off. In getting a bar you accept a medium chance of saving your life in a low probability (assuming light-medium track use) roll over situation in trade for a medium chance of brain damage/death in a relatively high probability (assuming daily driver) fender bender that would have left you unscathed normally. Most people generally do not make this trade in a street car since the fender bender is more likely than the roll over, with equally dire consequences. Either way you could die, which is of course why it's not a light topic here.
01-18-2008, 11:59 AM
#50
Originally Posted by tinkfist,Jan 18 2008, 12:39 PM
...and is bounded on the low end by the organization you run with...
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