Outfitting w/ Track for the Laymen
01-17-2012, 05:28 PM
#11
All I ask is that you offer your suggestions not statements like (grossly underestimating due to optimistic oversimplification) which I take offense to and read as (This guy if full of it, he doesn't know squat). Now if I am reading into it wrong then I apologize otherwise I would prefer if you took your comments to another thread.
It looks like you're building a very casual track car in which case this thread doesn't belong here anyway.
255 / 275 NT01s won't be enough grip to run your power. Last time I ran a GT3076R on track, I was on square Hoosier A6 285s and it felt just about perfect.
You're talking about a 550 whp turbo car that's whisper quiet on the inside and cushy for your wife. That sounds very optimistic, but what do I know? I'm just trying to warn you that in 9 years I've never seen such a thing. Now if you're just puttering around track like a lot of Corvette owners do, you'll probably be fine.
BTW, make sure you look at all the "I lost second gear" threads on the FI forum. That's just on the street. I suggest you add a tranny cooler at the very minimum (not on your current list). I also suggest you take a good look at the maximum torque rating of the ACT clutch (I've been through two of them).
01-17-2012, 06:42 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
We've had and broken a Comptech reinforced differential when boosted.
It looks like you're building a very casual track car in which case this thread doesn't belong here anyway.
255 / 275 NT01s won't be enough grip to run your power. Last time I ran a GT3076R on track, I was on square Hoosier A6 285s and it felt just about perfect.
It looks like you're building a very casual track car in which case this thread doesn't belong here anyway.
255 / 275 NT01s won't be enough grip to run your power. Last time I ran a GT3076R on track, I was on square Hoosier A6 285s and it felt just about perfect.
Have you broken any of Ben's Diffs? What is your rear end of choice?
You're talking about a 550 whp turbo car that's whisper quiet on the inside and cushy for your wife. That sounds very optimistic, but what do I know? I'm just trying to warn you that in 9 years I've never seen such a thing. Now if you're just puttering around track like a lot of Corvette owners do, you'll probably be fine.
BTW, make sure you look at all the "I lost second gear" threads on the FI forum. That's just on the street. I suggest you add a tranny cooler at the very minimum (not on your current list). I also suggest you take a good look at the maximum torque rating of the ACT clutch (I've been through two of them).
As for the ACT, I ran my last up to 375FTLB's at the wheel before it let go and have run them on many other cars up to 385FTLB's. Of course their holding ability will decrease as the wear but if I have to pull the tranny every year and replace it no big deal. As with most of my decisions it was a comprimise.
Thank you for the details, I will have to look into the tranny and diff coolers
01-17-2012, 06:47 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
I am looking into them now, did you use the 515#/in springs that they are shipped with the set? Now for the kicker, how long before you got them dialed in, the following (2) specs make me nervous. I could see spending a lot of days testing and tuning at one track let alone multiple.
Bump (bottom adjuster) all around 0.75 turns out from full stiff (out=left)
Front rebound (top adjuster) of 0.75 turns out from full stiff (out=counterclockwise)
Rear rebound of 1.5 turns out.
On my race car I'm running bump 0.75 all around, front rebound of 0.67, rear 1 so a lot of adjustment and tuning isn't necessary.
Great stuff, I am going to save this detail and do some more research! Thank you again!!!
01-17-2012, 07:17 PM
#14
I hear you and can't disagree on the diff, I had an R200 last go around. When I tune the car,especially for the track, I will be using boost by gear in conjunction with boost by RPM which should make the car more predictable/reliable. Rather than casual I would call it a "Jack of all Trades and Master of None", civil, quick around the track, quick down the track and clean enough to take the local car meets.
Have you broken any of Ben's Diffs? What is your rear end of choice?
With my last build buy utelizing a boost modulated cutout w/ the stock exhaust. I was able to achieve a very civil sound level tooling around yet flow enough to make good power. As for the ride, I used factory suspension on the last build and I have not had issues with the ride quality. Yes I am one of those "Corvette" guys, I just sold my C6 Z06, and you are right I am not the fastest driver, I was 4-6 seconds off pace on a 1:45 course from one of the instructors that was driving an identical car last time I was at the track with it. However I learning and getting better at each event. Ideally for me in the next few years I will buy another Z06, strip the S back down to N/A and really start racing it but until then it has to serve dual purpose.
As for the ACT, I ran my last up to 375FTLB's at the wheel before it let go and have run them on many other cars up to 385FTLB's. Of course their holding ability will decrease as the wear but if I have to pull the tranny every year and replace it no big deal. As with most of my decisions it was a comprimise.
Thank you for the details, I will have to look into the tranny and diff coolers
Have you broken any of Ben's Diffs? What is your rear end of choice?
With my last build buy utelizing a boost modulated cutout w/ the stock exhaust. I was able to achieve a very civil sound level tooling around yet flow enough to make good power. As for the ride, I used factory suspension on the last build and I have not had issues with the ride quality. Yes I am one of those "Corvette" guys, I just sold my C6 Z06, and you are right I am not the fastest driver, I was 4-6 seconds off pace on a 1:45 course from one of the instructors that was driving an identical car last time I was at the track with it. However I learning and getting better at each event. Ideally for me in the next few years I will buy another Z06, strip the S back down to N/A and really start racing it but until then it has to serve dual purpose.
As for the ACT, I ran my last up to 375FTLB's at the wheel before it let go and have run them on many other cars up to 385FTLB's. Of course their holding ability will decrease as the wear but if I have to pull the tranny every year and replace it no big deal. As with most of my decisions it was a comprimise.
Thank you for the details, I will have to look into the tranny and diff coolers
Here are some points of interest:
If boosting by gear and limiting by rpm, you're really talking about a 350whp build rather than a 550whp one. It's kind of amusing that you see threads (not you, I'm talking about other people) of people who make 500+ hp but don't have traction to use it or are afraid of breaking trannies / diffs so granny a short shift. If you're limiting boost, you're really driving a lower hp target. If you cut off the top end of your rpm, it might be unpredictable to have variable boost (dropping torque).
With a turbo that size, you're going to be accepting slower spool. If you don't have the traction to use the top end power, then you get the worst of both worlds, a slower spooling turbo and limited boost due to running out of grip.
For your current tire and durability / cost goals, you'd be much better off with a smaller turbo and "less" peak horsepower and torque but the ability to actually use them.
Another point of interest:
I did downsize my turbo from the 3076R. With the smaller turbo I currently make 373 ft*lbs of torque.
If you're using the larger 3076R, with a clutch that you think would be barely adequate for my smaller turbo... how's that going to hold up on track?As an aside, I chuckle at some of the FI forum threads that are all about the peak horsepower. The dialogue in my head goes something like this:
Tuner kid: I make 600 whp!
Me: So your turbo spools by 5500 rpms, right?
Tuner kid: Yeah, but I have to shift at 6500 rpms or else my hellaflush tires and wheels just spin and spin....
Me: So looking at your dyno plot, you only have 300 whp that you can actually use on the street.
Tuner kid: But I make 600 whp!
Me: lol
01-17-2012, 07:30 PM
#15
I'm also anticipating that you're going to be street driving your car there instead of trailering.
Breaking a tranny / diff / axle / burnt clutch can turn an away track weekend into a nightmare if you're not prepared.
Most serious drivers wind up evolving their choices into separate dedicated track and street vehicles.
Breaking a tranny / diff / axle / burnt clutch can turn an away track weekend into a nightmare if you're not prepared.
Most serious drivers wind up evolving their choices into separate dedicated track and street vehicles.
01-17-2012, 07:49 PM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
I really do appreciate your positive attitude and that this has remained a nice discussion rather than turning ugly. I thank you for that.
Here are some points of interest:
If boosting by gear and limiting by rpm, you're really talking about a 350whp build rather than a 550whp one. It's kind of amusing that you see threads (not you, I'm talking about other people) of people who make 500+ hp but don't have traction to use it or are afraid of breaking trannies / diffs so granny a short shift. If you're limiting boost, you're really driving a lower hp target. If you cut off the top end of your rpm, it might be unpredictable to have variable boost (dropping torque).
With a turbo that size, you're going to be accepting slower spool. If you don't have the traction to use the top end power, then you get the worst of both worlds, a slower spooling turbo and limited boost due to running out of grip.
For your current tire and durability / cost goals, you'd be much better off with a smaller turbo and "less" peak horsepower and torque but the ability to actually use them.
Another point of interest:
I did downsize my turbo from the 3076R. With the smaller turbo I currently make 373 ft*lbs of torque. If you're using the larger 3076R, with a clutch that you think would be barely adequate for my smaller turbo... how's that going to hold up on track?
As an aside, I chuckle at some of the FI forum threads that are all about the peak horsepower. The dialogue in my head goes something like this:
Tuner kid: I make 600 whp!
Me: So your turbo spools by 5500 rpms, right!
Tuner kid: Yeah, but I have to shift at 6500 rpms or else my hellaflush tires and wheels just spin and spin....
Me: So looking at your dyno plot, you only have 300 whp that you can actually use on the street.
Tuner kid: But I make 600 whp!
Me: lol
Here are some points of interest:
If boosting by gear and limiting by rpm, you're really talking about a 350whp build rather than a 550whp one. It's kind of amusing that you see threads (not you, I'm talking about other people) of people who make 500+ hp but don't have traction to use it or are afraid of breaking trannies / diffs so granny a short shift. If you're limiting boost, you're really driving a lower hp target. If you cut off the top end of your rpm, it might be unpredictable to have variable boost (dropping torque).
With a turbo that size, you're going to be accepting slower spool. If you don't have the traction to use the top end power, then you get the worst of both worlds, a slower spooling turbo and limited boost due to running out of grip.
For your current tire and durability / cost goals, you'd be much better off with a smaller turbo and "less" peak horsepower and torque but the ability to actually use them.
Another point of interest:
I did downsize my turbo from the 3076R. With the smaller turbo I currently make 373 ft*lbs of torque.
If you're using the larger 3076R, with a clutch that you think would be barely adequate for my smaller turbo... how's that going to hold up on track?As an aside, I chuckle at some of the FI forum threads that are all about the peak horsepower. The dialogue in my head goes something like this:
Tuner kid: I make 600 whp!
Me: So your turbo spools by 5500 rpms, right!
Tuner kid: Yeah, but I have to shift at 6500 rpms or else my hellaflush tires and wheels just spin and spin....
Me: So looking at your dyno plot, you only have 300 whp that you can actually use on the street.
Tuner kid: But I make 600 whp!
Me: lol
Yep I am the same way. I guess I too have heard WAY to much of that "Tuner" kid crap also and I get quite frusterated when I do.
I like the Ptuning kit quite a bit for many reasons, bottom mount in my opinon is the way to go, they have a nice oil scavanging system and a very simple layout. Unfortunatly the smallest turbo they are offer is the GT3076 with an .82 A/R due to the Tial VBand housing they choose to use. I was actually looking into a GT28 w/ 0.63 A/R which I think would be a better match. I will admit I do get carried away at times looking for more power.
On the other hand the predictablity of a supercharger is fantastic. I have had the opportunity to drive and tune several supcharged cars and felt they would probably be a much easier car to dry at the track. In fact while I had the Z06 I has planned another S2000 build with a supercharger but I really want to try the Ptuning kit.
I will have to do some searches on your build and maybe if you aren't so lucky we will meet on the track when I do get the car built and you will have to try and keep up
As long as you're good enough to be in the "open passing" run group. 
01-17-2012, 08:32 PM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Oh and free plug for LJ at Full Blown, like you he has been a great resource for me and many others I have worked with!!
01-18-2012, 03:49 AM
#19
This is why I rarely do "lapping days." 
When people try treating HPDE like a race, it's on par with street racing, IMHO.
Wheel to wheel against similarly prepped cars is where it's at.
More emphasis on the driver, less on the car. I'd rather drive our SSB Civic 10/10ths on the track against similar cars than the turbo car at 8/10ths "against" a slower field.
When people try treating HPDE like a race, it's on par with street racing, IMHO.Wheel to wheel against similarly prepped cars is where it's at.
More emphasis on the driver, less on the car. I'd rather drive our SSB Civic 10/10ths on the track against similar cars than the turbo car at 8/10ths "against" a slower field.
01-18-2012, 11:33 AM
#20
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This is why I rarely do "lapping days." When people try treating HPDE like a race, it's on par with street racing, IMHO.
Wheel to wheel against similarly prepped cars is where it's at.
More emphasis on the driver, less on the car. I'd rather drive our SSB Civic 10/10ths on the track against similar cars than the turbo car at 8/10ths "against" a slower field.
When people try treating HPDE like a race, it's on par with street racing, IMHO.Wheel to wheel against similarly prepped cars is where it's at.
More emphasis on the driver, less on the car. I'd rather drive our SSB Civic 10/10ths on the track against similar cars than the turbo car at 8/10ths "against" a slower field.