pantyraider

Thanks.

124Spider

Good insight, Mike.

Certainly, if timing is always a part of the program, and it is emphasized (and monitored) that the timing is a tool to provide more information on a student's driving, it can be very helpful. But for an individual newbie student to time himself, without coordinating with an instructor, is, IMO, dangerous, because there is a very real risk that the timing will become the goal rather than another piece of data.

Peace.

Doug Hayashi

I recommended a hot lap timer in this thread because:

1. SVT Chia ran at a Speed Ventures event
2. Which means there is AMB timing available
3. SVT Chia will probably run at more Speed Ventures events
4. He's a So Cal person (where timing is commonly done with TCRA, SV, NASA, Alfa, POC, PCA, etc)
5. There hasn't seemed to have been insurance problems at the events due to hot lappers.

If I wasn't familar with the regional events, I would not have made a recommendation.

As for measurement, the reason why the S2000 guys in California (in general) are so fast is because of timing and all the S2000 drivers helping each other become better, faster drivers. The S2000 guys will clean up on just about all the car clubs except for Viper Club (10 cylinders, with a national Viper Days events that encourages timing), Porsche dudes (generally recognized as the fastest dudes around and they do timing), and the Radical guys. All the other car clubs are usually embarrassed when the SV S2000 guys show up. Just as many people crash at non-timed events as timed events, at least from experience down this way.

Just don't drive like an idiot, and the timing will help ya.

I see too many people (myself included) doing too many things the night before an event that screws up a good night's sleep (and thus your driving concentration). The best events are when the car is ready a few days before the event, and I can spend my time relaxing before an event, instead of thrashing around at the last minute. The day before an event is like getting ready for a weekend trip, packing clothes, food, water, washing the car, taking care of loose ends at work/home/etc.

-Doug

msm_s2k

Without knowing laptimes there is no metric to judge progress. Laptimes at my very first HPDE were very valuable. Without timing a track nub can get out on track and thrash around unsettling the car, tossing it around with the movie style "fast" driving. Nothing drove home the importance of balance and smoothness like seeing the difference in my laptimes based on how I drove. Laps that "felt" fast were in fact slow. Laps that were smooth and felt slower, were considerably faster.

Timing was extremely valuable to me my first HPDE event. Some of the comments of it not being needed for perhaps quite a number of events ...

Not doing timing for insurance reasons, well that is a different story.

mikegarrison

That makes the assumption that laptimes are the only possible metric for progress. They are not.

You had timing your first session on the track, and it was very helpful to you. But other people, who don't have timing, also have very steep learning curves in their first sessions too. How? Because timing is not the only possible feedback, that's how.

124Spider

Darn, and for the five HPDEs I've been at, and seen my lines get better, my braking get better, my driving get smoother, my entrance speeds faster, my exit speeds faster, etc., etc., etc. I've been wrong in _knowing_ I've improved?

You have a remarkably narrow definition of "metric to judge progress." As I said in a previous post, timing can be one of many useful teaching tools. It certainly is not the only way to tell one is improving, and isn't even the most important one for a long time in a driver's evolution from newbie to accomplished driver.

pantyraider

That may be, but if you ever want conclusive proof, you check the lap time. You'll never truly know if you'l getting better if you can't measure yourself . As has been said before, going of "feel" alone is not necessarily correct.

krazik

yeah don't you want to know if you're -actually- faster? Your but dyno is just about always wrong. As stated by others the laps that feel the fastest rarely are.

You went to school right? After every test did you just say "I feel I aced that" and never looked back for a grade?

mikegarrison

Ways to know if you are actually faster:

1) timing
2) speedo
3) run out of gear where you didn't before
4) stop getting passed
5) instructor tells you
6) your own sense of time and speed tells you
7) etc.

Some of those can be fooled or depend on the circumstances, but the same is true of laptimes (rain? traffic? tire conditions? etc.).

Timing is a tool, not the only tool. Not necessarily even the best tool, especially if all you know is your time for the entire lap. That being said, I have definitely started to want to get timing information about my own laps. It is a valuable tool, no doubt. It may be a valuable tool for a new driver -- several of you have said it was valuable to you. But I do not think it is a necessary tool for a new driver.

krazik

no one has ever said its the only tool. But its not subjective and is exact. 4 of yours are grossly subjective (4 to 7). even the speedo has lag so its a bit subjective, tho not that bad.

I look at my exit and entry RPMS (your #2 and 3). Those are important too, but I don't see any that are more imperical and important than timing.