124Spider

Maybe for an advanced driver, but it takes some time--probably years unless you have a great deal of time and money--before a newbie HPDE driver is good enough that lap time is a useful statistic. And it is simple human nature to do something harder/faster when being timed; one doesn't need to be a "retard" to fall into that trap. Why do you suppose schools forbid it, and even banish those caught doing it? Could it be that it's dangerous?

Maybe your key to success, at your level, is measurement. For a newbie, the key to success is much lower-level--learning the lines; learning the track markers; learning to brake, etc. Timing will only be a negative distraction.

And, before one merely times, filming your driving would be more useful anyway, so you can review how you took certain parts of the track; you can get times from the films, but you will feel less pressure from that.

Encouraging a newbie to time himself is a bad idea.

mikegarrison

Mostly for insurance reasons, actually.

In reality, measurement IS the key to efficient improvement. How can you improve if you don't know whether you are getting better or worse? But you need to be consistent enough for the measurement to be useful. Also, lap times are too broad -- sector times and detailed speeds at particular points on the track are much better indicators.

Lately, for instance, I've been trying to judge how well I got through a particular corner by what my speed is at various reference points on the track. For instance, when I go through T8/9 on PR well, I'm hitting 90 as I cross from the new pavement to the old. When I go through there and it feels good but I'm going 85, I know the feeling lied to me. Likewise, when I go through there and it feels like I screwed up but I'm going 90, I also know the feeling lied to me.

I would like to get more data, so I can really tell what is going on.

But my first 5-10 track days I wouldn't have been able to tell you what was different about how I took that corner anyway, so the difference in speeds would have been more mystifying than educational.

Everyone will be different, but I think that in general a beginning HPDE driver should not worry much about their speeds or their times. They will start to come along naturally, as the basic skills start shifting from a conscious struggle to an unconscious natural action.

Triple-H

Well for the schools I was referring to it was all about the insurance gods. When times are being taken it is virtually impossible to prove it is not a competition event, and insurance for a competition event versus a school are very very different. So if someone is caught timing they cannot be allowed to jeopardize the event for all the students who are living by the rules.

And for some drivers yes, timing can be just a bit more that their attention span allows. They can get caught up in the task of trying to trip the watch at the perfect spot and just not have the concentration they need with other people on the track. I have seen some really stupid things in my time...

Triple-H

Wise words...

I'm going on my 8th year of teaching this spring, I have seen some students who started so slow I thought they would be in the novice run group all their lives. But they worked on consistency, smoothness, car control, driving theory, car mechanics and more; never once timing themselves, and let me tell ya, I can think of one or two right now who are blindingly fast, but they started slow and had a real understanding on the fundementals before they started pushing the car and themselves.

krazik

SVT, timing is encouraged at all SV events, No need to ask

A prime example. My Dad. He's been 2 two events (3 days total). Always running timing. Does he go out and drive like and asshat? no. He goes out every time and tries to be smoother, hit his marks and try drive better. Now he is able to come in every session and see the improvement. And its drastic when you're new. You can lose 5-10 seconds in a session you can see your improvement.

I'm not advocating timing to for newbies so they can compete. The purpose is to measure.

Furthermore, timing is the reason there is such as large volume of fast s2k drivers out here. And most all started with timing, and very slow times.

TrueDrezzer

IMHO, I don't do lap timing at the 'Ring even after 320+ laps of the circuit, but I do keep track of my exit speeds on critical corners (Adenauer Forst, Bergwerk, etc). I think that's a lot more helpful than a simple lap time.

///Robin

pantyraider

I don't get how timing is "dangerous". Any person with a semblance of common sense would slowly work up their limits, timing only helps that. If that person is recklessly driving and endangering himself and others, then he shouldn't even be out on the track regardless of timing or not.
If I couldn't see my times , the day would just not be complete. Sheesh, it's not that big of a deal. I started timing from my very first event, and I'm still in one piece. It just comes down to having some common sense, and realizing your limits.

krazik

krazik

I should add you've gotten mighty quick too

mikegarrison

This discussion is starting to remind me of one among the climbing community. For many years a certain knot was popular in Europe, but in North America it was referred to as "the EDK" aka "Euro Death Knot".

Different experiences lead to different ideas of what is safe and/or a good idea. Obviously, many of the CA drivers are used to timing and have made it part of their driving experience. Some of us in other regions are used to no timing.

I think we are all agreed that measurement is a valuable tool for improvement. Measurement can also be very distracting if you lose focus on the idea that the measurement is just a representation of a thing, not the actual thing itself.

In a time trial, the lap time IS "the thing". But in driving education, it is only one method towards acheiving "the thing" (becoming a more skilled driver and/or having fun).

BTW, most (but not all) American climbers now use the EDK, but the name persists....