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See, different universe. Brake fluid, check! I didn't say I was cheap nor am I. I pay $12 plus shipping for a can of brake fluid and you pay $4. I am saying I'm lazy.
It probably takes 30 mins to jack up the car if all you're using is the scissor jack, and the tools in the back of the trunk, but if you have a good jack, and an electric impact wrench, it only takes 5 mins.
I haven't flushed my fluid in a year also, whenever I start to do a flush, I see no bubbles, and it's perfectly blue, so I dont' bother with it anymore. Not to say I won't do a flush, I'm probably going to do one tomorrow as it's always on the back of my mind, but doing it before every track event is overkill IMO.
Jeez, so someone actually comes around to inspect each car before you can go out? That must be annoying to do that for a HPDE, I can understand if it's for a race...
See, different universe. Brake fluid, check! I didn't say I was cheap nor am I. I pay $12 plus shipping for a can of brake fluid and you pay $4. I am saying I'm lazy.
Now you can! How's it feel?
The NASA rules (especially with an annual inspection) are pretty relaxed but they do require brake fluid to be "clear". The problem is that you really can't see the fluid that sits next to your caliper can you? The fluid in my resevoir always looks perfectly clear but occasionally the fluid that resides 2" from my caliper (where all the heat is) does not look that good (and that goes for Motul 600 as well as the Valvoline).
The lazy part I can see, but I can be pretty lazy too and I don't have a problem bleeding the brakes (especially when the car is already on jacks with wheels off). At that point is just becomes a matter of maybe 3-4 minutes to bleed the brakes.
With the all the expense and time involved with getting new tire, rotors, pads etc it just seems a bit odd that bleeding brake fluid at least a few times per season is so objectionable to you. I wonder what others on this forum think about this? If I could get away with bleeding less I would certainly appreciate hearing from some other people's experiences?
[QUOTE=pantyraider,Aug 10 2005, 11:50 AM] It probably takes 30 mins to jack up the car if all you're using is the scissor jack, and the tools in the back of the trunk, but if you have a good jack, and an electric impact wrench, it only takes 5 mins.
I haven't flushed my fluid in a year also, whenever I start to do a flush, I see no bubbles, and it's perfectly blue, so I dont' bother with it anymore.
I'm running ATE fluid. It lasts me 10 to 15 track days but probably a lot more over a full 15 months without deterioration. You use Motul and Valvoline and find degradation after only 1 or 2 track days. Am I crazy for not changing my fluid more regularly or are you crazy for not using the same fluid? I would rather be on the track with a fluid I know will last 10 full days minimum than one I know will go off after only 1 or 2, even if I did change it after every day.
Here are 4 samples I just took of brake fluid I have sitting around in my garage. One is ATE Superblue out the can, one is ATE superblue out of my resevior (remember it's 15 months old), one is valvoline SynPower out of the bottle and one is OE Honda Heavy Duty DOT3 (stock) out of the bottle. It put a few drops of each sample on a plain white sheet of paper out of my inkjet paper tray and took a digital photo with my camera.
Hint: If you guessed the 3rd sample is the new Super Blue out of the can, no soup for you! It's out of my car.
The problem with that is that the fluid in the resevoir always looks decent (unless it is completely shot). It is the fluid next to the calipers that is exposed to the heat form the brakes and is exposed to more possible connections with air (and therefor H20) from all the banjo bolts and soft to hard line connections that is more likely to be compromised. I would be impressed if your fluid (when bleed from the caliper) looks like that after 15 events.
Here is my point, I have never had any issues with brake fluid boiling and that is whether I use Valvoline or Motul 600. Motul 600 has higher wet and dry boiling points than ATE which in turn has slightly higher wet and dry boiling points than Volvoline Synpower. With my conservative brake fluid changing regiment, I basically don't have any brake fluid issues with any of the fluids I use. I could start extending my bleed intervals untill I had an issue but discovering the critical point going in T1 at Summit is not something I am really interested in exploring.
Just for anyone who is interested, here are some basic wet and dry boiling points:
It is interesting to note that the wet boiling point of fresh Valvoline is higher than 6 month old ATE. Even if the specs are estimates, it is clear that brake fluid performance degrades over time (even with no use) probably due to the ineveitable contamination with water. So frequent changes prevent/reduce this loss in performance.
Wow, I had no idea I was going to start an internet pissing match....
In any case, the consensus is the factory fluid and pads won't cut it.
Like I said, the Valvoline has worked well for me for years AND it's readily available at any Pep Boys/AutoZone/etc.
The pads will be a bit more difficult. The marketplace here recommends the Cobalt GT-Spec or Hawk HP Plus. Can anyone compare these two to the Porterfield R4S?
BTW, I'll be instructing at this event. So, I'm not sure my car will see as much seat time as the students cars.
08-10-2005, 08:35 AM
. I'm running RA-1's with Cobalt Spec-VR pads and I've never had an issue with the fluid boiling or degrading over time.
