No rear sway bar= push
04-09-2010, 05:09 PM
#41
Originally Posted by az3ar,Apr 9 2010, 03:18 PM
Good thread, good info. I am currently debating the idea of removing my rear sway bar (this is a track car only, AP1). I personally like oversteer more than understeer because I get to rotate her. This got me wondering if removing the rear bar will induce ton of understeer. I have the following parts getting ready to be put on the car
front: ball joint (- 3.5 camber) Zero toe
Rear: Megan racing arms ( -3 camber). Not sure about the toe but I am going with a slight toe in
Saner Front bar (not sure on which setting I will install it at)
Caster will be maximized in the front. Not sure about rear yet
I have 255 wide tires on 45 offset rims (street tires, I rarely run Rs if ever.)
I have KW V3 installed which I think are 415 all around (little soft)
This past weekend I had -3.0 in the rear with -2.1 camber in the front (maxed out), stock sways (255 tires) and the car was a nightmare. Could not get the front to hook. It used to oversteer by looking at it now it does not turn in right.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks
front: ball joint (- 3.5 camber) Zero toe
Rear: Megan racing arms ( -3 camber). Not sure about the toe but I am going with a slight toe in
Saner Front bar (not sure on which setting I will install it at)
Caster will be maximized in the front. Not sure about rear yet
I have 255 wide tires on 45 offset rims (street tires, I rarely run Rs if ever.)
I have KW V3 installed which I think are 415 all around (little soft)
This past weekend I had -3.0 in the rear with -2.1 camber in the front (maxed out), stock sways (255 tires) and the car was a nightmare. Could not get the front to hook. It used to oversteer by looking at it now it does not turn in right.
Any thoughts would be helpful
Thanks
Look at the large spring it will say on it 8 or 9 N, it depends when it was made.
If you get the J's camber joints you will be able to get much more neg front camber. I like the J's better because its an offset ball joint. The adjustable top ball joints can move. There are guys that like them. It's just my preference.
I do not know why the front end would loose traction. Going to a square setup, 255 all around, the front should have tons of grip. You may have something else going on.
As you see on this thread many guys are using a saner front bar to balance the car after going to 255's all around because the car tends to have pronounced oversteer.
Who did your alignment? This can be screwed up and could be part or all of your problem.
If you are going to run a camber difference front to rear I would not go more than .4 or so.
What are your ride heights. This should be the same or close to it font and rear and around 1 to 1.25" lower than stock. If you lower the car too much the suspension geometry will be adversely effected. The KW's do not like a slammed car.
04-09-2010, 06:01 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NOVA DC area
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by markhs2,Apr 9 2010, 05:09 PM
Your V3 KW's are either 9N = 513 lbs/in or 8N = 456 lbs/in
Look at the large spring it will say on it 8 or 9 N, it depends when it was made.
If you get the J's camber joints you will be able to get much more neg front camber. I like the J's better because its an offset ball joint. The adjustable top ball joints can move. There are guys that like them. It's just my preference.
I do not know why the front end would loose traction. Going to a square setup, 255 all around, the front should have tons of grip. You may have something else going on.
As you see on this thread many guys are using a saner front bar to balance the car after going to 255's all around because the car tends to have pronounced oversteer.
Who did your alignment? This can be screwed up and could be part or all of your problem.
If you are going to run a camber difference front to rear I would not go more than .4 or so.
What are your ride heights. This should be the same or close to it font and rear and around 1 to 1.25" lower than stock. If you lower the car too much the suspension geometry will be adversely effected. The KW's do not like a slammed car.
Look at the large spring it will say on it 8 or 9 N, it depends when it was made.
If you get the J's camber joints you will be able to get much more neg front camber. I like the J's better because its an offset ball joint. The adjustable top ball joints can move. There are guys that like them. It's just my preference.
I do not know why the front end would loose traction. Going to a square setup, 255 all around, the front should have tons of grip. You may have something else going on.
As you see on this thread many guys are using a saner front bar to balance the car after going to 255's all around because the car tends to have pronounced oversteer.
Who did your alignment? This can be screwed up and could be part or all of your problem.
If you are going to run a camber difference front to rear I would not go more than .4 or so.
What are your ride heights. This should be the same or close to it font and rear and around 1 to 1.25" lower than stock. If you lower the car too much the suspension geometry will be adversely effected. The KW's do not like a slammed car.
I dont even know where to start LOLI dont know if they are 8 or 9 I will check tomorrow. I hope they are 9s but they still feel a little soft for me.
A friend did the alignment and I was there. I believe I had ton of understeer because - 2 in the front vs - 3 in the rear. All my previous race cars always had more camber in the front than the rear. Most cars have more weight in the front thats why you need a little more camber.
The car is not slammed... I would say .5 inch lower than stock or so but I will double check.
But in all honesty it was not fun to drive this last track day. It was weird. it was a lot more fun to drive on the 225 and 205 front...
04-10-2010, 04:13 AM
#44
Originally Posted by az3ar,Apr 9 2010, 02:18 PM
I am currently debating the idea of removing my rear sway bar (this is a track car only, AP1). I personally like oversteer more than understeer because I get to rotate her. This got me wondering if removing the rear bar will induce ton of understeer. I have the following parts getting ready to be put on the car
front: ball joint (- 3.5 camber) Zero toe
Rear: Megan racing arms ( -3 camber). Not sure about the toe but I am going with a slight toe in
Saner Front bar (not sure on which setting I will install it at)
Caster will be maximized in the front. Not sure about rear yet
I have 255 wide tires on 45 offset rims (street tires, I rarely run Rs if ever.)
I have KW V3 installed which I think are 415 all around (little soft)
This past weekend I had -3.0 in the rear with -2.1 camber in the front (maxed out), stock sways (255 tires) and the car was a nightmare. Could not get the front to hook. It used to oversteer by looking at it now it does not turn in right.
front: ball joint (- 3.5 camber) Zero toe
Rear: Megan racing arms ( -3 camber). Not sure about the toe but I am going with a slight toe in
Saner Front bar (not sure on which setting I will install it at)
Caster will be maximized in the front. Not sure about rear yet
I have 255 wide tires on 45 offset rims (street tires, I rarely run Rs if ever.)
I have KW V3 installed which I think are 415 all around (little soft)
This past weekend I had -3.0 in the rear with -2.1 camber in the front (maxed out), stock sways (255 tires) and the car was a nightmare. Could not get the front to hook. It used to oversteer by looking at it now it does not turn in right.
04-10-2010, 03:17 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NOVA DC area
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ZDan,Apr 10 2010, 04:13 AM
Reading your post (hate understeer, want some oversteer, car pushed like mad last outing), I don't see why you would consider removing the rear bar. See how it goes with the stock rear sway in there. It's a totally new setup for you, so you'll likely be tuning from whichever baseline you start with.
04-11-2010, 01:18 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lexington, Ky
Posts: 2,540
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I run CR sways, I did not like the car without a rear bar, the stability is very noticeable.
700# springs
CR Sways
Front:
0 Toe
Max OEM camber allowance ~-2.2
Max Caster
Rear:
-.2 Toe per side
-3 Camber
700# springs
CR Sways
Front:
0 Toe
Max OEM camber allowance ~-2.2
Max Caster
Rear:
-.2 Toe per side
-3 Camber
02-02-2012, 07:44 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys,
A bit new here, I have a set of BC coilovers, with two sets of springs, 8kg and 12kg. It is not in the car atm.
I've driven the car with the rear swaybar off before and it does plant itself nicer.
I put it back on because I like the stiffness it gives instead.
Should I chuck the 12kg springs in the front and 8kg in the back?
It's a weekend car, but I will take it to the track every once a while.
Or should I go 8kg front and rear, and take the rear swaybar off again?
Cheers
A bit new here, I have a set of BC coilovers, with two sets of springs, 8kg and 12kg. It is not in the car atm.
I've driven the car with the rear swaybar off before and it does plant itself nicer.
I put it back on because I like the stiffness it gives instead.
Should I chuck the 12kg springs in the front and 8kg in the back?
It's a weekend car, but I will take it to the track every once a while.
Or should I go 8kg front and rear, and take the rear swaybar off again?
Cheers
02-03-2012, 03:42 AM
#48
Former Moderator
I wanted to comment on removing the rear sway bar for track use (sorry, I know this is an autocross thread). I ran a year and a half with the rear sway bar removed because Rene, the fastest s2k driver I've ever encountered, ran that way. Initially I was a little faster and I didn't notice the push I was expecting to encounter, but I hit a plateau of lap times around my local track. When I put the rear bar back on I immediately dropped almost a second a lap but I started to spin the inside rear wheel and bounce off the rev limiter out of two slow and one intermediate speed corners on Summit Point Main. Over the next few months I shaved off another 1.5 seconds from my personal best (before the OS Giken) so the rear sway bar works for me. I installed an OS Giken clutch-type limited slip differential in 2011 to address the wheel spin.
02-03-2012, 06:11 AM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like anything else it seems with these cars, this is one of those things thats a matter of your style and choice. If you feel more comfortable with it off, then you will go faster, and vice versa.
I am running with the rear bar off and an Eibach front bar. Springs are 700F and 560R. My car is pushing like crazy. My tires are shot, and I am not maxed out on front camber. I think I have pretty much concluded that before going back to the rear bar I want to play with alignment settings etc until I like it.
I am running with the rear bar off and an Eibach front bar. Springs are 700F and 560R. My car is pushing like crazy. My tires are shot, and I am not maxed out on front camber. I think I have pretty much concluded that before going back to the rear bar I want to play with alignment settings etc until I like it.
