DesertRat

Hello all,

I know that questions such as these are slightly annoying, so therefore my apologies, please bear with me.

I spun a rod bearing on my F20C (crank damaged + cylinder wall scratched, but cylinder head ok). 100% my fault, only checked oil the previous day and did not allow enough for the oil consumption during a hard track day (I don

The Reverend

I just called Asura last night with similar questions. I have an F20 engine with just under 100k miles on it and I'm getting passed on straights now by cars with stock 2.0 motors and aero. To clarify, stock F20Cs currently can pull 2-3 car lengths on me in a straight, even if I hold them up on corner exit and even though they have lots more aero drag.

I'm on a super tight budget, but hoping (praying) things will change soon. Asura recommends the 2.2 over the 2.0 bottom end hands down. That recommendation was in line with everything else I saw (well, some recommend going bigger). If you go 2.2L though, keep in mind you need cams that make power at a lower rpm than what you would use with a 2.0L bottom end. Seems like although you CAN run the 2.2L to 9k rpms (and it'll make power with an F20 cam), you probably shouldn't.

From the rumors I've heard around the playground, I think 300 whp is unrealistic on pump gas (reliably), but I think 270-280 is doable, depending on what you want to spend.

In my case, I'd really like to get over 250 whp with the entire project staying under $5k. At this point, that's looking unrealistic unless someone wants to buy my used short block and I get some good hookups on parts along the way.

Regarding the gearing... I've had enough diff failures over the years, that I'm also feeling about ready to refresh my diff, just to make sure the bearings are still under proper load, etc. I might want to swap out to that Mazdaspeed miata rear end gear when I do that (4.44, right?). Anyone remember how much those go for? I remember it was a lot less than other rear end choices.

Asura

You cannot beat the reliability of an OEM Honda block be it 2.0 or 2.2L. All S2K Honda Cup motors so far have been OEM blocks.

In stock trim, the AP2 owners (F22 + 4.3 final) complain about hitting the limiter. If this doesn't bother you or you want to blip the limiter more often, get shorter gears.

Raising the RPM on a 2.2L might make more power, but it will not last very long.

I have no idea what sort of petrol you have readily available in Dubai, but 11.9:1 is very aggressive.

In the end, it's your car, budget, and stress level that has to deal with the results of experimenting, so caveat emptor.

The Reverend

What kind of comp ratio can I get up to with just milling the head and running a thin head gasket? I was thinking 11.5:1 with a bone stock f22 bottom end would be a good, cost-effective setup.

DesertRat

Thanks, your insights and sharing of knowledge & experience is really appreciated.

The Reverend;
-Your point about the cams is good, I never thought about that, but it makes sense. Do you (or someone else?) have any advice? Stock F22 cams, Crower
or Toda Spec 2A?
-270-280 whp on pump gas would be great. I would prefer to limit the expenditure now to ~$7000, since I already have the EMS, P&P cylinder head etc.

Asura;
-The

twohoos

How many years did your first engine last? For every 10-15 hp gain, subtract a year from that to get the life of the rebuilt motor.

The Reverend

Just under 7 years, 100k miles. LOTS of track days.

BrendanC

I think that running sleeves (950 from laskey it looks like) and custom pistons with good rings would do well. Why bring down the rev limiter on an engine that could have Lighter Pistons even though they are larger by a few milimeters? Adding stroke does what at 7krpm comming out of a turn? I guess loweirng the rev limiter would add longevity, but when you add stroke, you lower the saftey ceiling anyway.

I corvette will beat a perfectly driven S2000 around a (certain) track with a 7k redline, so its all relative. Our motors are technically cheaper and easier to rebuild, so I would sacrifice a bitof longevity for a bit more fun.

My personal plan if I were to do it, as it is right now, is to keep the higher redlines of the 2.0 engines, sleeve it for more bore (on a seprate engine, I have learned my lesson on starting projects on CURRENT engines), and boost it within reason with an SC, since I have no use for gobs of torque at 4500rpm. Under full boil, I am 98% of the time above 6200rpm.

Sounds like a cheaper, quicker way to get to the fun part - track time in a car that will last a while.

Slows2k

As cost effective as new OEM shortblocks are you can't go wrong with them. You can also bet Honda's machining tolorances are closer than what most speed shops and technicians can hold.

If and when I need a shortblock, I'll be buying one from Honda.

blackey

I've been researching this a bit as well. You won't hit 300hp with a 2.0 or 2.2 with stock cams. The most HP is from the 2.5L kits. These have been a bit spotty. I think the crower stroker and cam compination should be a strong one, but the cams are not out yet, so who knows.

I think a 2.5L with ALL the bells and wisels might make 300hp, but thats with AEM, ITB's, big cams, P and P, etc...

270-280 is realistic though. The larger the CC's though, the more power your going to make.