My First PDX
06-04-2014, 07:34 AM
#1
My First PDX
Hey everyone! I've been on and off these forums for a number of years and have been around the NASIOC Subaru community for a while now. I finally bought a 2005 S2000 back in March and I absolutely love it! I had owned Hondas for a long time, but left for a little while when I bought my WRX. I live in western WI, so I really wanted anything that wasn't FWD. I had mulled over the S back in 2009 when I bought the WRX, but just didn't want to keep my Civic. I somehow convinced my wife to let me pick up the S and even told her I planned on racing! I looked over events in my area for a while to try to find the right one and looked at the autocross schools, but couldn't work it out with my schedule. I am glad that it didn't, because what I found was a high speed, white knuckle event instead.
A little back story on my previous racing experience, I had rented a GTR at Las Vegas speedway through Vegas Exotics. Awesome fun and I highly recommend it! Great way to spend $350 bucks in Vegas(car rental,transport to the track, and tip). The issue I ran into at this track was that the car was so fast I immediately got tunnel vision and I didn't break that for the rest of the 7 laps. What I did learn there, was to use the whole track in my corners. I definitely felt that I improved my driving skills on this track, but I knew I needed more instruction.
Finally after getting the S, I started looking for some type of racing event that also had instruction. What I came across was a PDX at DCTC in Rosemount, MN, which is just south of the Twin Cities. They have 2.8 miles of track they can arrange in various ways. The road course set up for us was 1.2 miles. First impressions on track were that the S is much better balanced than my WRX. It really is kind of point and shoot. It goes where you want it to. I had five fifteen minute sessions on track and they definitely ran the S through its paces. I had the option for a sixth, but didn't go out because the brakes were cooked, the engine was starting to heat soak I'm pretty sure, and I was exhausted. Throughout the day, I had the opportunity to try to catch up to other cars, as this was not a solo event, but was also not W2W(designated passing). I chased a Cayman S on one session for 4-5 laps before he let me pass. I thought that was awesome! Later in the day, he had gotten better and I couldn't catch him, but its still cool to be able to see that. Also, had a run with a BRZ, which was surprisingly much slower in the straights and corners (Due to HP and the crappy tires they put on them. It also started to rain in the middle of the day and I spun out and went backwards off the track. Thankfully no damage as the grass was all flat.
Overall driving impressions at the end of the day were very positive. The brakes held up much better than my WRX's ever could. On the long straight, I would see about 85-90mph and the car was able to brake hard without ever really noticing any heavy fade. These were factory pads and fluid, so some better pads and new fluid should take care of that. I also have some crappy Nexen 360 wear rated tires, with performed sub par. My WRX has much better tires that are noticeably stickier. The gearing was also fantastic for this track. I had to go down to second on one corner and up to 4th on the straight. Otherwise, the corners were mostly 45+ and I would leave it in third. I think some time could have been made up in the slower corners in 2nd, but maybe not. I never probably dipped below 4500 rpm. I had all these ideas of things to do to the S before tracking it and now those ideas have changed a little. I am glad I raced it stock, because it definitely gave me a better idea of where to go with it. It was difficult to find many flaws in it though. My WRX has just been trying to make things the way they should have come from the factory, where the S is just stunning already.
I still plan to Auto-X, but I don't think I will make it the priority of my race driving or worry about what class I am in. I am working on the nut behind the wheel, but here is a list of things I am considering now.
Future Upgrades:
1. Tires
The tires I have are not great, but I don't think I want to go full slicks, as these types of events are really just against yourself. Thinking Direzza ZII's, which are half the price of slicks. Probably will still run staggered setup. Is the square setup good for road racing?
2. Brake pads
I would want to just get something for light duty track since this is a road car as well.
2A. Brake ducts and oil cooler
I would like to do this, but it is not allowed in Auto-X
3. Roll Bar
I like the idea of the added safety, but I like the Cusco bar, which apparently is not SCCA legal and I really don't want to hack up the car. The hard dog bar just looks kind of hideous although I'm sure is stronger than the Cusco. Also, a race seat and harness, which would bump me into STR in Auto-X
4. Full exhaust
Real reason for this is to shed pounds. 40-45 pounds in just the exhaust parts and maybe a couple hp to boot.
5. Lightweight battery
Same thing, mostly just for weight
6. Suspension
going back to the tires, same thing goes here. I am not made of money, so 4k for a suspension seems a little crazy. Thinking KW V3 with possibly a different spring set.
Any advice is appreciated. I won't have everything done for 3-4 years I'm sure, but it will be a project.
A little back story on my previous racing experience, I had rented a GTR at Las Vegas speedway through Vegas Exotics. Awesome fun and I highly recommend it! Great way to spend $350 bucks in Vegas(car rental,transport to the track, and tip). The issue I ran into at this track was that the car was so fast I immediately got tunnel vision and I didn't break that for the rest of the 7 laps. What I did learn there, was to use the whole track in my corners. I definitely felt that I improved my driving skills on this track, but I knew I needed more instruction.
Finally after getting the S, I started looking for some type of racing event that also had instruction. What I came across was a PDX at DCTC in Rosemount, MN, which is just south of the Twin Cities. They have 2.8 miles of track they can arrange in various ways. The road course set up for us was 1.2 miles. First impressions on track were that the S is much better balanced than my WRX. It really is kind of point and shoot. It goes where you want it to. I had five fifteen minute sessions on track and they definitely ran the S through its paces. I had the option for a sixth, but didn't go out because the brakes were cooked, the engine was starting to heat soak I'm pretty sure, and I was exhausted. Throughout the day, I had the opportunity to try to catch up to other cars, as this was not a solo event, but was also not W2W(designated passing). I chased a Cayman S on one session for 4-5 laps before he let me pass. I thought that was awesome! Later in the day, he had gotten better and I couldn't catch him, but its still cool to be able to see that. Also, had a run with a BRZ, which was surprisingly much slower in the straights and corners (Due to HP and the crappy tires they put on them. It also started to rain in the middle of the day and I spun out and went backwards off the track. Thankfully no damage as the grass was all flat.
Overall driving impressions at the end of the day were very positive. The brakes held up much better than my WRX's ever could. On the long straight, I would see about 85-90mph and the car was able to brake hard without ever really noticing any heavy fade. These were factory pads and fluid, so some better pads and new fluid should take care of that. I also have some crappy Nexen 360 wear rated tires, with performed sub par. My WRX has much better tires that are noticeably stickier. The gearing was also fantastic for this track. I had to go down to second on one corner and up to 4th on the straight. Otherwise, the corners were mostly 45+ and I would leave it in third. I think some time could have been made up in the slower corners in 2nd, but maybe not. I never probably dipped below 4500 rpm. I had all these ideas of things to do to the S before tracking it and now those ideas have changed a little. I am glad I raced it stock, because it definitely gave me a better idea of where to go with it. It was difficult to find many flaws in it though. My WRX has just been trying to make things the way they should have come from the factory, where the S is just stunning already.
I still plan to Auto-X, but I don't think I will make it the priority of my race driving or worry about what class I am in. I am working on the nut behind the wheel, but here is a list of things I am considering now.
Future Upgrades:
1. Tires
The tires I have are not great, but I don't think I want to go full slicks, as these types of events are really just against yourself. Thinking Direzza ZII's, which are half the price of slicks. Probably will still run staggered setup. Is the square setup good for road racing?
2. Brake pads
I would want to just get something for light duty track since this is a road car as well.
2A. Brake ducts and oil cooler
I would like to do this, but it is not allowed in Auto-X
3. Roll Bar
I like the idea of the added safety, but I like the Cusco bar, which apparently is not SCCA legal and I really don't want to hack up the car. The hard dog bar just looks kind of hideous although I'm sure is stronger than the Cusco. Also, a race seat and harness, which would bump me into STR in Auto-X
4. Full exhaust
Real reason for this is to shed pounds. 40-45 pounds in just the exhaust parts and maybe a couple hp to boot.
5. Lightweight battery
Same thing, mostly just for weight
6. Suspension
going back to the tires, same thing goes here. I am not made of money, so 4k for a suspension seems a little crazy. Thinking KW V3 with possibly a different spring set.
Any advice is appreciated. I won't have everything done for 3-4 years I'm sure, but it will be a project.
06-04-2014, 09:19 AM
#2
Registered User
First, congrats on getting the car out and driving it like it's suppose to be driven. 
A few things I would suggest: Spend your money on suspension and tires. i.e. if you are going to splurge, do it in those two areas as you'll get the best bang for your buck there. ZII's are a good street and track tire. They are very progressive and handle heat fairly well. On the suspension, even though you aren't thinking about this now, I would recommend taking a look at something other than KW V3's. If you ever decide to do time trials with NASA, the KW's cost extra points for the external reservoir. I know it's not on your mind now, but I would look for a damper which does not have an external reservoir so at least you'll be set should you decide to move down that path (something like Ohlins or AST). I've seen a lot of drivers who never thought they would do time trials, and then they started but had to completely re-develop their car to fit it into a competitive class.
A few things I would suggest: Spend your money on suspension and tires. i.e. if you are going to splurge, do it in those two areas as you'll get the best bang for your buck there. ZII's are a good street and track tire. They are very progressive and handle heat fairly well. On the suspension, even though you aren't thinking about this now, I would recommend taking a look at something other than KW V3's. If you ever decide to do time trials with NASA, the KW's cost extra points for the external reservoir. I know it's not on your mind now, but I would look for a damper which does not have an external reservoir so at least you'll be set should you decide to move down that path (something like Ohlins or AST). I've seen a lot of drivers who never thought they would do time trials, and then they started but had to completely re-develop their car to fit it into a competitive class.
06-06-2014, 06:27 PM
#3
Welcome to the addiction. I'm a track day junkie running a mostly stock AP2, although I do race vintage. I mostly do HPDE events when I can't find a race.
1. Tires yes. Read the comparisons on Tire rack. I run a high performance summer tire, the Suminitomo HTR Z III. Happy with them.
2. Competition brake pads, yes. I run Carbotech XP-10 front and rear; others like XP-8 on the rear. I bought through Rick's S2000 Accessories web site. Put in shopping cart to see actual discounted price. Competition pads are pretty much a must. Pretty easy to swap out. Takes me about an hour.
3. Braided steel brake lines.
4. High temp brake fluid.
Spend the rest of your money on track days. The car in stock form has far than you can wring out after only one track day.
When you get up into intermediate level, then start thinking roll bar, seats and harnesses. Lot of guys running track days with cars still used for street use the Hard Dog as it allows the top to still operate.
After that you can start thinking suspension and aero.
1. Tires yes. Read the comparisons on Tire rack. I run a high performance summer tire, the Suminitomo HTR Z III. Happy with them.
2. Competition brake pads, yes. I run Carbotech XP-10 front and rear; others like XP-8 on the rear. I bought through Rick's S2000 Accessories web site. Put in shopping cart to see actual discounted price. Competition pads are pretty much a must. Pretty easy to swap out. Takes me about an hour.
3. Braided steel brake lines.
4. High temp brake fluid.
Spend the rest of your money on track days. The car in stock form has far than you can wring out after only one track day.
When you get up into intermediate level, then start thinking roll bar, seats and harnesses. Lot of guys running track days with cars still used for street use the Hard Dog as it allows the top to still operate.
After that you can start thinking suspension and aero.
06-08-2014, 08:37 AM
#4
I like XP12 front/10 rear.
06-09-2014, 11:30 AM
#5
I can definitely agree that there is much more to wring out than what I was getting it to do. The big struggle I had was with grip. I think better tires will be the biggest key to time reduction. Everything else seemed very solid. I kind of want to keep the rims and tires I have and then get a dedicated track set. If I do that, then I will definitely need a bigger front bar if I run square.
Thanks Mahjik for the ideas on the coilovers. Thats one costly mistake I won't make. Also, the Ohlins seem to have about the spring rates I would want as well. I am trying to avoid that whole rebuilding thing. Thats why I am hesitant on brake ducts and oil cooler. The ducts could be taken off, but not so much with an oil cooler.
Now to say goodbye to all my money!
Thanks Mahjik for the ideas on the coilovers. Thats one costly mistake I won't make. Also, the Ohlins seem to have about the spring rates I would want as well. I am trying to avoid that whole rebuilding thing. Thats why I am hesitant on brake ducts and oil cooler. The ducts could be taken off, but not so much with an oil cooler.
Now to say goodbye to all my money!
06-10-2014, 02:47 PM
#6
You can play with tire grip by adjusting your pressure. Lower pressure generally increases the size of the tire patch for more grip. The manner in which you work your feet - both acceleration and braking - can also affect grip.
You can spin from slamming on the accelerator too hard; and from lifting in a corner. (Never lift in a corner! Taruffi's Rules 1 through 4!) You can lose the rear end going around a corner. But the trick is to be right on the edge of grip - but practice your recovery on an autocross track or on a skidpad at 35 mph, not at 90 mph going through Turn 4.
When driving in the rain, don't follow the dry line, and drive like you have an egg shell under your foot.
There is a book called "Going Faster". Lots of technical information that you will come back to time and again. There is also a video - Google "Skip Barber Going Faster" and it should come up. It's about 90 minutes long and it's a lot cheaper that the three day race school it depicts. Provides a lot of technical information.
Edit: here's the video. The first minute is bogus, after that excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM
You can spin from slamming on the accelerator too hard; and from lifting in a corner. (Never lift in a corner! Taruffi's Rules 1 through 4!) You can lose the rear end going around a corner. But the trick is to be right on the edge of grip - but practice your recovery on an autocross track or on a skidpad at 35 mph, not at 90 mph going through Turn 4.
When driving in the rain, don't follow the dry line, and drive like you have an egg shell under your foot.
There is a book called "Going Faster". Lots of technical information that you will come back to time and again. There is also a video - Google "Skip Barber Going Faster" and it should come up. It's about 90 minutes long and it's a lot cheaper that the three day race school it depicts. Provides a lot of technical information.
Edit: here's the video. The first minute is bogus, after that excellent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM
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