Massive oversteer issues
#1
Massive oversteer issues
Ok, so my CR is having a massive oversteer issue. Initially, I attributed it partially sub-par tires (595 RS-R) and alignment (increased rear camber and decreased toe-in).
Both of those variables were eliminated; tires were swapped out for RE-11, and camber brought back down to previous levels.
The problem didn't go away. I even put the stock exhaust back on to make sure weight changes weren't affecting the car.
Setup: Stock S2000 CR, -3.3 front camber 0 front toe, -2.8 rear camber, 1/8" rear toe in, 255/40/17 all around, stock aero
As it sits, my car will oversteer in virtually any condition:
- on turn-in regardless of trailbraking, just turning, or under acceleration (light or heavy.
- under steady state cornering, regardless of lift-off, steady partial throttle, or full gas.
- on track-out, I am completely unable to power out.
The oversteer condition is so bad that at pretty much any turn, I can be a two gears higher than what I should be at, and still make the rear come out by gassing, and we all know how deadly the s2k's massive power output is. At CVR this weekend, I could make the rear of the car step out on command at ~70 mph in 4th and even 5th gear. I was unable to get an apex speed higher than ~72 (gps speed) at the apex due to the oversteer.
A bone stock (staggered tires, no mods) s2k seems to take every corner roughly 3-4mph faster than I can, which should NOT be the case at all. I felt that my car is capable of at least a 2:05 at CVR, and I was unable to get any lower than a 2:09. I simply cannot put any power down. I also had Nam (VitaRenovatio) drive my car to verify; in his words, "your car drives like ass".
Please help! What could be causing this problem? I'm looking to solve the problem by figuring out what is causing this oversteer, rather than throwing on more parts as a band-aid.
Both of those variables were eliminated; tires were swapped out for RE-11, and camber brought back down to previous levels.
The problem didn't go away. I even put the stock exhaust back on to make sure weight changes weren't affecting the car.
Setup: Stock S2000 CR, -3.3 front camber 0 front toe, -2.8 rear camber, 1/8" rear toe in, 255/40/17 all around, stock aero
As it sits, my car will oversteer in virtually any condition:
- on turn-in regardless of trailbraking, just turning, or under acceleration (light or heavy.
- under steady state cornering, regardless of lift-off, steady partial throttle, or full gas.
- on track-out, I am completely unable to power out.
The oversteer condition is so bad that at pretty much any turn, I can be a two gears higher than what I should be at, and still make the rear come out by gassing, and we all know how deadly the s2k's massive power output is. At CVR this weekend, I could make the rear of the car step out on command at ~70 mph in 4th and even 5th gear. I was unable to get an apex speed higher than ~72 (gps speed) at the apex due to the oversteer.
A bone stock (staggered tires, no mods) s2k seems to take every corner roughly 3-4mph faster than I can, which should NOT be the case at all. I felt that my car is capable of at least a 2:05 at CVR, and I was unable to get any lower than a 2:09. I simply cannot put any power down. I also had Nam (VitaRenovatio) drive my car to verify; in his words, "your car drives like ass".
Please help! What could be causing this problem? I'm looking to solve the problem by figuring out what is causing this oversteer, rather than throwing on more parts as a band-aid.
#2
So you're completely stock suspension and aero, but you went non-staggered? You just added a lot of tire width, and therefore grip, to the front. You need to add a stiffer front sway bar and take off the rear at the minimum but the car will probably still be loose. So stiffer front springs or add a ton of rear downforce.
Have you read this series?
http://www.motoiq.com/projects/project_honda_s2000.aspx
Have you read this series?
http://www.motoiq.com/projects/project_honda_s2000.aspx
#3
Sounds like mine except I've done other things to try to induce understeer. Now it'll understeer until it gets a high amount of load which makes it snap from understeer to oversteer and it's quite driver unfriendly. I'm trying replacing All the rear Arms, Bumpsteer kit and bushings this weekend. I drive other cars even back when my was all CR suspension and mine has just always driven like ASS. I'm thinking I have something bent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJR37nxrkPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJR37nxrkPI
#4
The thing is, the car was not like this before. Previously, it was very neutral. There is something wrong with the car.
All things aside, even with larger front tires, there is no way my car should be slower than a stock non-cr on staggered tires in steady state corners.
All things aside, even with larger front tires, there is no way my car should be slower than a stock non-cr on staggered tires in steady state corners.
#5
I would check your mounts just to be safe. I had two torn diff mounts that I bought the car with and once I replaced them there was definately an improvement. Im not saying that this is your fix but if its a recent problem maybe you have some busings or something that have finally given up.
#7
Alignment was fresh before the track day; it was done at Evasive. The issue was also there before my alignment. I've been fighting my car for a few track days now. A bad alignment wouldn't have this drastic of an effect on the car, I think.
Going to get under the car when I get home today...
To answer questions asked on another board:
Wheels bearings are fresh (less than 10 track days).
Car did not previously behave like this with the same setup.
CVR is super smooth, bump steer isn't an issue.
Front sway is still there (when I last checked a few weeks ago) and connected.
*edit*
general consensus is that something is either very worn or broken.
Going to get under the car when I get home today...
To answer questions asked on another board:
Wheels bearings are fresh (less than 10 track days).
Car did not previously behave like this with the same setup.
CVR is super smooth, bump steer isn't an issue.
Front sway is still there (when I last checked a few weeks ago) and connected.
*edit*
general consensus is that something is either very worn or broken.
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#8
hi man. take the car to darin @ west end. he's pretty good at problems in suspension. i've had cars done at other places and get f'd up, and then took it to darin and was able to get everything nice again. also had accident damage on another car and brought it to 2-3 other shops, including the dealership, and none could fix the problem. darin made it so much better on my visit.
sometimes i will get my cars aligned elsewhere for convenience, but for detailed work and fixing problems, and corner balancing, i will not go to anyone else except for him.
sometimes i will get my cars aligned elsewhere for convenience, but for detailed work and fixing problems, and corner balancing, i will not go to anyone else except for him.
#10
You went to a non-staggered setup (more front grip) with more front camber than rear (more front grip)...
What were your HOT tire pressures?
Adjusting your tire pressures, larger front bar, less front camber, more rear camber, or a wing would all be in the right direction.
What were your HOT tire pressures?
Adjusting your tire pressures, larger front bar, less front camber, more rear camber, or a wing would all be in the right direction.