Kart Racing
12-19-2010, 10:57 AM
#1
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Kart Racing
Does anyone here race karts? I have one year off before starting medical school and I was hoping to get into serious racing on a budget (in a sense, pursue my dream before real life starts).
What is the most common level of entry? Does it make sense to start on a "Touch and go" or a 125cc shifter? What are the miscellaneous costs in addition to equipment (race costs, maintenance, crashes, etc.)?
Sorry if my question is a bit vague. I am just starting my research into the field and would appreciate any wisdom you could impart.
Thanks!
What is the most common level of entry? Does it make sense to start on a "Touch and go" or a 125cc shifter? What are the miscellaneous costs in addition to equipment (race costs, maintenance, crashes, etc.)?
Sorry if my question is a bit vague. I am just starting my research into the field and would appreciate any wisdom you could impart.
Thanks!
12-19-2010, 11:07 AM
#2
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Relevant thread: http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f314/how-exp...track-days-3595. ekartingnews.com is a good resource as well.
When asking similar questions, I've been told that it's too big a jump to go straight into shifter karts, but your mileage may vary.
When asking similar questions, I've been told that it's too big a jump to go straight into shifter karts, but your mileage may vary.
12-19-2010, 12:14 PM
#3
Speaking as someone who knows medical training, can I ask a few questions?
1. Previous driving experience?
2. Budget?
If you're an experienced driver on a budget, karting may fit great. If you're a new "racer" that's not mechanically inclined, then it might be a little tough competing against karters that have been racing for 10 years by the time they're 16. You know how talented some of those kid rollerbladers / BMXers are? Same thing with karts. If you start early, you learn it in a way that adults don't.
If you're overall new, I'd think about autocrossing. Maybe in ST or STS. Minimal base entry costs, don't need tow vehicle, plenty of competition / camaraderie.
The reason I ask is that you could spend $15k on karting and travel or $5k on a car you could still enjoy on the weekends casually during med school. And those $10k in savings will be $30k by the time you pay back your loans (providing that your parents or scholarship isn't paying).
If you're independently wealthy, disregard. But then buy an S2000 and go time trial....
1. Previous driving experience?
2. Budget?
If you're an experienced driver on a budget, karting may fit great. If you're a new "racer" that's not mechanically inclined, then it might be a little tough competing against karters that have been racing for 10 years by the time they're 16. You know how talented some of those kid rollerbladers / BMXers are? Same thing with karts. If you start early, you learn it in a way that adults don't.
If you're overall new, I'd think about autocrossing. Maybe in ST or STS. Minimal base entry costs, don't need tow vehicle, plenty of competition / camaraderie.
The reason I ask is that you could spend $15k on karting and travel or $5k on a car you could still enjoy on the weekends casually during med school. And those $10k in savings will be $30k by the time you pay back your loans (providing that your parents or scholarship isn't paying).
If you're independently wealthy, disregard. But then buy an S2000 and go time trial....
12-19-2010, 12:33 PM
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As was mentioned above, ekartingnews.com is probably one of the better forums for karting info.
I have seen people take both approaches: start with a TaG or jump right into a shifter.
I'll start by saying that I only auto-x my shifter kart, which may not apply to your goals. But...I had years of dirt bike experience under my belt and felt very comfortable with the constant shifting needs of the shifter kart. Just to give you an idea, on a 60 sec auto-x course, I shift about 30+ times. Obviously this is a very course dependent figure, but it gives you an idea of how busy you are with a shifter. When I did a run in my buddy's TaG, it was a different experience. Yes, they're a bit slower. But you have the ability to focus more on the course and setting up your lines, which helps offset the performance difference. You can also keep both hands on the wheel at all times, which seems to help maintain a smooth driving line.
The TaG owner I mentioned above recently reconfigured his kart with a shifter engine and has been picking it fairly well. Having no previous karting or 2-stroke bike experience, the TaG allowed him to gain confidence with the driving techniques of the kart chassis without being distracted by gear selection and whatnot. Now that he has a shifter engine, he's able to focus on the shifting without worrying about learning how to drive a kart due to his time with the chassis as a TaG.
I've also seen other dirt bikers try to take up shifter karting. Sometimes it clicks for them, sometimes it doesn't. It's highly dependent on the driver.
Common costs:
$220 per set of tires (about 50 prime auto-x runs)
$8-12 per gallon of race gas (depends on availability in your area)
$100-$200 per top end rebuild (approx. every 4 to 5 hours)
$500 per bottom end rebuild (approx. every 10 hours)
If you're not mechanically inclined, do not buy a shifter kart. Between every auto-x run there's something to adjust, replace, tighten, etc. After each event, you'll want to inspect just about every fastener. The vibration levels are quite high, which results in a lot of preventative maintenance and inspection.
I have seen people take both approaches: start with a TaG or jump right into a shifter.
I'll start by saying that I only auto-x my shifter kart, which may not apply to your goals. But...I had years of dirt bike experience under my belt and felt very comfortable with the constant shifting needs of the shifter kart. Just to give you an idea, on a 60 sec auto-x course, I shift about 30+ times. Obviously this is a very course dependent figure, but it gives you an idea of how busy you are with a shifter. When I did a run in my buddy's TaG, it was a different experience. Yes, they're a bit slower. But you have the ability to focus more on the course and setting up your lines, which helps offset the performance difference. You can also keep both hands on the wheel at all times, which seems to help maintain a smooth driving line.
The TaG owner I mentioned above recently reconfigured his kart with a shifter engine and has been picking it fairly well. Having no previous karting or 2-stroke bike experience, the TaG allowed him to gain confidence with the driving techniques of the kart chassis without being distracted by gear selection and whatnot. Now that he has a shifter engine, he's able to focus on the shifting without worrying about learning how to drive a kart due to his time with the chassis as a TaG.
I've also seen other dirt bikers try to take up shifter karting. Sometimes it clicks for them, sometimes it doesn't. It's highly dependent on the driver.
Common costs:
$220 per set of tires (about 50 prime auto-x runs)
$8-12 per gallon of race gas (depends on availability in your area)
$100-$200 per top end rebuild (approx. every 4 to 5 hours)
$500 per bottom end rebuild (approx. every 10 hours)
If you're not mechanically inclined, do not buy a shifter kart. Between every auto-x run there's something to adjust, replace, tighten, etc. After each event, you'll want to inspect just about every fastener. The vibration levels are quite high, which results in a lot of preventative maintenance and inspection.
12-19-2010, 12:41 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by oldskooleskimo,Dec 19 2010, 11:57 AM
I was hoping to get into serious racing on a budget
I'm inclined to say that the two are incompatible, but you may be thinking of different things than I am.
12-19-2010, 01:17 PM
#6
I've thought about Karting, but it's looking costly. I'm always torn between improving some of the hardware on the S, plus replacement of consumables vs. a 125cc Shifter Kart. Looking at $4000 for a use RTR 125 shifter plus spares and tools, but the maintainence and upkeep - man I just don't know.
12-19-2010, 07:54 PM
#7
I have a 04 AP2 and have been doing time trial/track day events for the past 10+ yrs. I previously had a Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX AWD that I tracked.
I also have an Intrepid Sirius Spec Moto Shifter Kart. I've been Karting for about 3 yrs and started right off with Spec Moto Shifter.
I wanted to do wheel to wheel racing and was going to build a Spec Miata. I did a lot of research and decided to get into Karting instead.
The Kart is really just plain amazing and addictive. Track days are addictive like your favorite food and wheel to wheel in a Shifter Kart is like heroin.
The performance of the shifter will blow your mind. The cornering lateral G's, acceleration, braking etc is in another solar system compared to a car. I know two pros who said that after their Shifter Kart, as they went up in W2W racing all the race cars were a let down till they got to Formula Atlantic. Dan Weldon still competes in Kart racing regularly and calls it the purest form of racing.
I would recommend getting a 125 Tag kart to start, a nice used one will cost around $3000 to $4000. If you go out and really put in a long day at a karting sprint track the costs here in So Cal are:
* 40 for track fee to run all day if you can handle all day most people can't. It's very physical and demanding.
* 40 to 50 for 5 gallons of race gas you will only use 3 and that will wear you out.
* Tires are $200 per set.
* brakes last a long long time.
* Top end on a Spec moto 125 honda is about $100, easy to do and you can get around 12 to 22 hrs on a top end.
If you are going to car tracks you will have to do the top end more often like 5 hrs because the high speed stuff requires it. Your speed will drop off alot if you don't. If you are racing at kart tracks then 15 to 18 hrs is still competitive.
* I really like going to a practice day paying $40 and going out on track whenever I want to.
* The Kart Tracks are 1/2 the distance of the car tracks for me.
Way more cost effective than a car.
A Shifter is a real handful and a steep learning curve. The recommendation form most is to start in a tag and get down how to drive well and learn proper racing lines and race craft before you go to a shifter.
Get the Kart you will not be sorry
Intrepid, CRG, Toni Kart are all great karts to look at.
ekartingnews.com is a great resource as said above.
Rioyellows2k:
I see that you are in Texas. Mike Jones has a Kart shop in Texas. He is a very very fast kart racer and a great guy. He races a Spec Moto Shifter and has been very very good at the Super Nationals.
Give him a call, go and check out his shop. He can help get you going in the right direction.
http://www.thekartshop.net/contact-us
oldskooleskimo:
Where are you located?
If you have any questions I am happy to help out anytime.
mark
I also have an Intrepid Sirius Spec Moto Shifter Kart. I've been Karting for about 3 yrs and started right off with Spec Moto Shifter.
I wanted to do wheel to wheel racing and was going to build a Spec Miata. I did a lot of research and decided to get into Karting instead.
The Kart is really just plain amazing and addictive. Track days are addictive like your favorite food and wheel to wheel in a Shifter Kart is like heroin.
The performance of the shifter will blow your mind. The cornering lateral G's, acceleration, braking etc is in another solar system compared to a car. I know two pros who said that after their Shifter Kart, as they went up in W2W racing all the race cars were a let down till they got to Formula Atlantic. Dan Weldon still competes in Kart racing regularly and calls it the purest form of racing.
I would recommend getting a 125 Tag kart to start, a nice used one will cost around $3000 to $4000. If you go out and really put in a long day at a karting sprint track the costs here in So Cal are:
* 40 for track fee to run all day if you can handle all day most people can't. It's very physical and demanding.
* 40 to 50 for 5 gallons of race gas you will only use 3 and that will wear you out.
* Tires are $200 per set.
* brakes last a long long time.
* Top end on a Spec moto 125 honda is about $100, easy to do and you can get around 12 to 22 hrs on a top end.
If you are going to car tracks you will have to do the top end more often like 5 hrs because the high speed stuff requires it. Your speed will drop off alot if you don't. If you are racing at kart tracks then 15 to 18 hrs is still competitive.
* I really like going to a practice day paying $40 and going out on track whenever I want to.
* The Kart Tracks are 1/2 the distance of the car tracks for me.
Way more cost effective than a car.
A Shifter is a real handful and a steep learning curve. The recommendation form most is to start in a tag and get down how to drive well and learn proper racing lines and race craft before you go to a shifter.
Get the Kart you will not be sorry
Intrepid, CRG, Toni Kart are all great karts to look at.
ekartingnews.com is a great resource as said above.
Rioyellows2k:
I see that you are in Texas. Mike Jones has a Kart shop in Texas. He is a very very fast kart racer and a great guy. He races a Spec Moto Shifter and has been very very good at the Super Nationals.
Give him a call, go and check out his shop. He can help get you going in the right direction.
http://www.thekartshop.net/contact-us
oldskooleskimo:
Where are you located?
If you have any questions I am happy to help out anytime.
mark
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12-19-2010, 08:44 PM
#8
Registered User
Originally Posted by markhs2,Dec 19 2010, 08:54 PM
* Tires are $200 per set.
Originally Posted by markhs2,Dec 19 2010, 08:54 PM
Way more cost effective than a car.
* 40 for track fee to run all day if you can handle all day most people can't. It's very physical and demanding.
* 40 to 50 for 5 gallons of race gas you will only use 3 and that will wear you out.
* Tires are $200 per set.
* brakes last a long long time.
* Top end on a Spec moto 125 honda is about $100, easy to do and you can get around 12 to 22 hrs on a top end.
* 40 for track fee to run all day if you can handle all day most people can't. It's very physical and demanding.
* 40 to 50 for 5 gallons of race gas you will only use 3 and that will wear you out.
* Tires are $200 per set.
* brakes last a long long time.
* Top end on a Spec moto 125 honda is about $100, easy to do and you can get around 12 to 22 hrs on a top end.
* Test days are typically $200+; race weekends are likewise $200+ per race group (and most people enter two classes, making the total entry per race weekend $300+ even with a discount for the second class)
* You use $3 / gallon pump gas, which you burn at a rate of about a gallon every 6 or 7 minutes, meaning you use about $70 worth of gas per double-entry weekend
* Tires are about $650 per set, and last about 10 sessions before they start to fall off
* Brakes last 3+ race weekends, depending on your driving style and local tracks
* Engines only require replacement every two seasons or so, but run $4000+
* You also need a tow vehicle and a trailer to drag your car to and from the track, getting 7 or 8 miles to the gallon along the way