Ludedude

That's the whole reason trailbraking works....and the reason you will spin if you do it wrong.

mikegarrison

That's totally wrong. With the advent of ABS it has become harder to spin under braking, but it's not impossible. Without ABS you can spin under straight-line braking. Ever see a handbrake turn?

jks2k

Ask yourself whether you've ever managed to spin while on the brakes? Handbrakes or any other sort of asymmetrical braking obviously doesn't count. ABS makes it even more unlikely to spin while on the brakes. Granted, I'm sure that there is some theoretical, extreme combination of steering lock on turn-in and hard braking that could initiate a spin while on the brakes, but I'm willing to assume that we're talking about typical cases. I've certainly never managed to spin while on the brakes. The most common source of spinning during any phase of driving while you're learning is an abrupt input be it throttle or brake application or release. In the case of trail braking, the typical spin is from abrupt brake release and slow transition back to throttle. Unfortunately, this is difficult to diagnose for yourself especially if you don't have a fair amount of experience. The higher entry speeds that are possible with trail braking tend to produce a sensory overload that make it difficult to accurately assess what you're actually doing versus what you think you're doing.

mikegarrison

And the answer is, "yes".

krazik

yes the answer is yes. back to physics class for you.

try this, brake in a straight line, take the corner at 8/10ths and when you are at the apex stab the brakes.

Oh yeha make sure you do it in a corner where there is lots of room. if you don't spin you aren't driving hard enuf.

jks2k

Absolutely correct about hitting the brakes mid-turn after turn-in, but the subject was trail braking.

mikegarrison

OK, I'm rereading this and MAYBE jks2k means that it is very difficult to spin under steady-state braking conditions. If so, I'll buy that -- it is very difficult to spin under any sort of steady-state condition. But he didn't say that. He said, "it is almost impossible to spin while on the brakes" -- and I am obviously not the only one in this conversation who has spun while on the brakes. FWD, RWD, even a snowmobile -- I've done it on all of them.

krazik

dude trail braking means you trail off the brakes while turning. if you stand on the brakes while turning you aren't trail braking. you're crashing.

jks2k

Actually, I wasn't talking about steady state, but rather trail braking. True, I should have explicitly restricted my comments to trail braking. I think the best illustration of the phenomenon is the use of the rotation on brake release while trail braking to help point the car. Whenever I've come into a corner too hot on the brakes, it was understeer all the way until brake release.

payneinthe

Trail braking is by definition AFTER turn-in. We have a problem of vocabulary here.