conclusive on-track testing of Speed Engineering Directional Vaned Brake Rotors
#31
silver9k... can you post up some pics of your brake ducts? i was going to do this sometime before the weekend.. post pics here for everyone if you can : )
or email me at justintaylor05@gmail.com if you dont mind.
i know brake ducting is effective.. but how effective? if you are getting 3x the life out of your pads.. thats enough in $ savings for me to go ahead and do it. ive been having some brake issues lately.. not sure what to blame it on. Im going back to the drawing board and start from the bottom to weed out the culprit.
or email me at justintaylor05@gmail.com if you dont mind.
i know brake ducting is effective.. but how effective? if you are getting 3x the life out of your pads.. thats enough in $ savings for me to go ahead and do it. ive been having some brake issues lately.. not sure what to blame it on. Im going back to the drawing board and start from the bottom to weed out the culprit.
#33
Former Moderator
Remember that a very aggressive pad like XP12 produces more brake torque = friction = heat.
Here's my how-to for brake ducts: http://robrobinette.com/S2000BrakeDucts.htm
#34
Registered User
i agree with Rob that brake ducts doesn't really help to reduce rotor cracking much, rotors crack because of heat cycle. but brake ducts does help improve pad life. pads wear quickly when used over their heat range.
i think the true test of these SOS rotors would be to have someone who were cracking OE rotors every 4 track days or so, and see if they can get more than that before the rotors crack.
i think the true test of these SOS rotors would be to have someone who were cracking OE rotors every 4 track days or so, and see if they can get more than that before the rotors crack.
#35
#36
Former Moderator
i think the true test of these SOS rotors would be to have someone who were cracking OE rotors every 4 track days or so, and see if they can get more than that before the rotors crack.
#37
Registered User
Thanks SOS for performing the test and sharing the results - well done.
Regarding comparing these to OEM rotors from a wear and cracking view. I'd suggest putting an OEM rotor on one side and one of these on the other to eliminate all the variables (weather, tires, track surface, traffic, etc). I don't think the difference in temperatures will cause a noticeable difference in pad CoF but theoretically if the pads are operating at different temps, the car could pull to one side if the pad has a steep CoF/Torque vs. Temperature curve.
Regarding comparing these to OEM rotors from a wear and cracking view. I'd suggest putting an OEM rotor on one side and one of these on the other to eliminate all the variables (weather, tires, track surface, traffic, etc). I don't think the difference in temperatures will cause a noticeable difference in pad CoF but theoretically if the pads are operating at different temps, the car could pull to one side if the pad has a steep CoF/Torque vs. Temperature curve.
#39
Originally Posted by psychoazn' timestamp='1305141513' post='20564582
Excellent testing.
However, the testing isn't quite conclusive for us so-cal s2k challenge drivers. Would you be able to perform additional testing in the future? Most of the socal drivers are fading XP12 pads with brake ducting, so if these rotors combined with ducting could prevent that, I believe it would tip the scale toward spending the extra dollars for these rotors. Depending on the track, we see braking from 130+ to ~45 [ACS] to 105+ to ~45 [SoWS] to 110+ to 70 [braking into Lost Hill at Buttonwillow]. Your testing is seeing speed differentials that unfortunately don't cover all of our braking ranges
Regardless, these rotors clearly run cooler than OEM and OEM style rotors, which is exactly what a lot of people are looking for
Also, I was looking at the equipment that you were using to measure temps. Do they make equipment that can measure higher than 1000F?
Thanks again for the testing! This is what every manufacturer needs to do.
However, the testing isn't quite conclusive for us so-cal s2k challenge drivers. Would you be able to perform additional testing in the future? Most of the socal drivers are fading XP12 pads with brake ducting, so if these rotors combined with ducting could prevent that, I believe it would tip the scale toward spending the extra dollars for these rotors. Depending on the track, we see braking from 130+ to ~45 [ACS] to 105+ to ~45 [SoWS] to 110+ to 70 [braking into Lost Hill at Buttonwillow]. Your testing is seeing speed differentials that unfortunately don't cover all of our braking ranges
Regardless, these rotors clearly run cooler than OEM and OEM style rotors, which is exactly what a lot of people are looking for
Also, I was looking at the equipment that you were using to measure temps. Do they make equipment that can measure higher than 1000F?
Thanks again for the testing! This is what every manufacturer needs to do.
Regarding your brake fade, you may wish to consider upgrading your fluid. Remember that a very aggressive pad like XP12 produces more brake torque = friction = heat. In my experience, the XP10 / 8 combination is the best combination for the racing we do, and what I suspect you do too. It provides more than enough brake torque for the weight of the S2000 and is not excessive in heat.
Yes, higher range sensors are available. However, you'll need to limit the cold end of the range or have reduce resolution. Expect to pay $1000-2000 for this.
Thank you for your comments & thumbs up, we appreciate it.
-- Chris
I used to get brake fade after hot laps at the track with the stock brakes + ferodo ds2500 brake pads + motul rbf600 fluid. I could last for about 4-5 laps before serious fade would start to set in. Datalogging showed my max braking g's to be at or slightly above 1 G steady on the heavy braking zones and I did tend to trailbrake quite a bit when needed. On the long drive back from the track, the fluid remained spongy and it took a day or two to regain pedal firmness. Fluid could last me max 2 trackdays and I cracked a pair of rotors after about 2-3 trackdays. A friend of mine cracked his rotor after 2 trackdays.
Post brake ducting seemed to point to increased pad longevity, a longer lifespan for my rotor which hasnt cracked after 7 trackdays, fluid life which could be stretched up to 7 trackdays (i got the fluid changed out because I was worried about the condition of the fluid even though not much fluid fade was noticeable and the extended fluid change interval was only meant to be an experiment) The custom ducting was all done at fairly reasonable cost as well ~350 USD. One of the best benefits is that I could stay out on the track braking hard consistently for just as many laps as I wanted so seat time was maximized. I stayed out for quite long , maybe 18 laps?, until I ran out of fuel.
I briefly wrote about my experience on my blog below. My ducting kit employed 2 funnels per front side which direct air to pad/piston area & another directly to the rotor air inlet area. The rear ducting have 2 hoses directing air to the same pad/piston area & directly to rotor air inlet area but is fed by one funnel with a Y joint leading to the 2 hoses.
It is true that I dont have concrete temperature readings before and after. I tried to secure some rotor temp paint but was not able to in time to do testing. I'm not doing this professionally or as a commercial venture so I have some constraints.
Hope this is useful to all
#40
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good test and on the right direction, but this looks like a half test to me
these data looks like those laps are probably the first hot laps or first hot laps after cool down laps
it clearly shows that it cools down faster than stock rotors, but i'd like to see some data after a 20 mins session run
the temp range of that sensor, 0-1000F is probably not high enough to record a few more hot laps
these data looks like those laps are probably the first hot laps or first hot laps after cool down laps
it clearly shows that it cools down faster than stock rotors, but i'd like to see some data after a 20 mins session run
the temp range of that sensor, 0-1000F is probably not high enough to record a few more hot laps