David NJ

From what I'm reading, the shocks need to be stiffer than anything normally used for the street, you need a front anti-roll bar the size of baseball bar (stiffer than any normal track or street bar), and the tires need to be changed at the track or the car trailered to the track.

Are we saying that the suspension modifications render the car a rough street ride?

David

P.S.
Is it also true that the Hoosiers are only good for 5 weekends or less? Does that add another $170/weekend to the costs?

PedalFaster

I daily drive my autocross car. It's no Cadillac, but it's far from unstreetable.

Steve

PENROD

Ask Mrsideways.
While he chooses not to drive his car daily, he placed 3rd at nationals (I'm pretty sure it was 3rd), and his car is VERY streetable. He has the front bar, shocks, alignment, and probably not much else. Believe it or not, alot of the AXers go with aftermarket shocks that are softer than stock. I would do the same, but I like my semi-rough stock ride comfort, and feel that a softer ride would ruin the car. I did try the aftermarket shocks on my Type R, and was not pleased with the daily ride being much softer, even on the stiffest setting, but I turned better times. On the other hand, for a couple more $G you can get the shocks re-valved to your liking and balance the daily ride with a 'completitive' ride.

All of this is really a moot point, as a "competitive" car is made competitive by the DRIVER, not by how much money, or how much stiffer the suspension is. BTW, I am of the opinion that Hoosiers will last much longer than 5 AX weekends (unless you've got a 2-driver car, and a bunch of 2-day events on long course, on concrete).

Advice: Improve the driver before you start modding the car. Trust me, the dollar to improved-lap-time ratio is much better for a $250 driving school than $3G worth shocks. Not to mention, sticky tires, sway bar, and shocks, springs, can tend to hide alot of mistakes.

heffergm

If someone who had no clue as to what driving in autocross was like asked me what he should buy to get started, I'd say nothing.

Run a whole season in absolutely bone stock trim, whatever that happens to be. By the end of the season you'll know for sure whether you want to be back for the next season, and you'll also have a much better idea of what you need to be competitive if that's your goal.

David NJ

The question isn't about new drivers. Its about winning. To actually make the car competitve at the highest levels you need the bar and shock changes. And of course the tires.

The answer appears to be a dedicated autocrosser is willing to live with the shock and bar changes and tows his race tires to the track. The ride change isn't a problem since they will sacrifice to race.

I've never been willing to go that far with my street car. But I am always 2 seconds off with my street tires. And the shoulders are clearly abused.

And I have a race car: a super late model (asphalt oval track). So I leave my S2k alone.

For a beginner, serious about autocross, I would at least recommend tires. Otherwise the frustration can be great. And they will destroy their street tires anyway.

jzr

Most of the shocks valved to provide a super-stiff stock-class ride are also adjustable, with a reasonably comfy street ride still within their adjustment range.

These same high-$-shock-equipped cars are almost always trailered to non-local events, for 2 reasons:
Nonexistent cargo capacity for extra wheels/tires
Wear and tear on expensive shocks

My own car rode better in the time it wore Fordahl-tuned JRZs than it ever did on factory shocks.

Z06-KILLR

You can be somewhat competitive with Kumhos and a front sway bar (even a cheap one) and the right alignment. You are probaby not going to take top 10 at Nationals but can do fairly well.

I would not be too concerned about the roughness of the car but more about the wear on the tires. The s2000 murders tires quickly...add more negative camber, change toe, etc and there you will have another problem.

I only put about 3-4,000 miles a year on my S2000...however, my tires might only get to see a full year to a year and a half (however, keep in mind that probably 25% of those I am on a different set of wheels/tires...

Hyper-X

Personally, I respect people who compete with less. It's too easy to cheer for the guy with an almost unlimited budget, and the high dollar mods but it's the ones who drive with the least and make the most out of them that gains my respect. IMO, if you have the superior car, you must beat all cars that have less equipment than you every-single-time... otherwise that basically means you suck. (well not suck, but you get the point)

It's easier to drive a modded car (because nobody who's focused on winning would ever mod the car to make it harder/worse to drive) than a completely stock unmodded car. If someone can drive a car with Kuhmos, stock shocks and Saner bar can best or match the times of the one on Hoosiers, Gendron/Comptech Gen2 bar and multi-valved shocks, the latter driver will get no respect from me.

The bottom line is if you can drive fast on cheaper or less equipment, that makes you a very good driver and you'll be that much faster with the good stuff.

When I look at the top drivers, I also look at what they have in terms of gear. Here on our local auto-x events, I look and watch the HS class drivers carefully because those cars dive like crazy, roll like hell and the driver can't keep themselves steady in their seats. When I see those guys beating out STS, FSP, even BS drivers, that only earns high praise from me by driving the inferior car. I respect good drivers, not good cars.

jzr

1/3 car, 1/3 driver, 1/3 tires.

Autocrossing (or any real form of racing) is never just about the operation of the machine - it's about making the system of machine and operator as efficient as possible at the given task.

Driving is a skill, so is setup. In autocross, a true champion is vell versed at both. Big $ shocks or swaybars are ZERO advantage if the person holding the wrench doesn't know what to do with them. Making a car its fastest is a lot more complex than bolting on expensive parts.

If one says car setup is as simple as "getting $5000 shocks, a $750 swaybar, and stacks of Hoosiers", then by the same token, driving is just "braking late, hitting apexes, accelerating smooth" - in both cases, doing those tasks to perfection is a LOT easier said than done.

Nobody will ever notice or care how good a driver you are if you can't put together a competitive package, go out there, and WIN!
...
FWIW my S2000 gets nearly 20k miles out of its street tires with maxed-out camber.

Z06-KILLR

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hyper-X
Personally, I respect people who compete with less.