Canton pan thoughts here
07-05-2014, 09:18 AM
#81
I installed mine. AP1, I just had to do following.
Remove windage tray.
Slightly bore out 7 holes on oil pan ( and when I say slightly I mean you almost can't tell).
Flywheel cover bolted up after I filed the 2 mounting holes were off by maybe 2mm, not a big deal.(which use stock bolts). I'll take pics tonight.
I will also be removing the pan in a month as I just realized I should have done DAMN banjo bolt upgrade...grrrrrr my fault.
Remove windage tray.
Slightly bore out 7 holes on oil pan ( and when I say slightly I mean you almost can't tell).
Flywheel cover bolted up after I filed the 2 mounting holes were off by maybe 2mm, not a big deal.(which use stock bolts). I'll take pics tonight.
I will also be removing the pan in a month as I just realized I should have done DAMN banjo bolt upgrade...grrrrrr my fault.
So I had this loud ratchet sound when braking after I installed oil pan and track pads. Kept thinking it was track pads. I removed the flywheel cover to find it had been ground down on back side! Spaced it out by 2mm and now I don't have that issue. This was with aftermarket Flywheel on AP1.
07-06-2014, 04:35 PM
#82
To summarize some of the issues:
Remember we had 57 sales, we've had issue with 4 people only as far as I can discern.
I'm not going to go over the windage tray. We knew it was an issue for some due to Honda's tolerances, and it's not really a needed item with the Canton tray. Enough said.
Pickup head: one person thought they had a problem until they lined up the tray perfectly, on person trimmed a little of the baffle directly around the pickup head
Antislosh plate: 2 people trimmed the very front pointy edges
Flywheel: 3 people had problems with it clearing the cover Canton fabricated. None were AP1's OEM. One was aftermarket clutch AP1, One was AP2 (unknown if OE or aftermarket), one was unknown if AP1 or AP2. He hasn't said. Interestingly, one person had an AP2, but was ok on clearance.
So, although not everyone has installed yet, 4 people with issues is not bad for a race car part.
Trimming the anti slosh plate slightly to provide clearance couldn't be easier. If the flywheel cover touches, run it without, or with spacers. Many race and street cars run without one.
As far as I'm concerned guys, despite these minor issues, this is a great product and beats the HELL out of anything else on the market.
Here's some comments from Canton:
Oil pickup (one guy had to trim, no other mentions
The issue about the baffle hitting the pump is could be our fault. Everything gets block fit on our block with the pump we have but that doesn't mean there isn't a different casting or something that changes from here to there. Not sure what changed from one pan to the next or even one pump to the next but I didn't think we made that part that tight, so I can't say I was anticipating that issue. With that said, Bob and I fight the customers battles pretty well here to make sure we deliver, and had this been an issue for someone that didn't have the ability to fix it we would have made sure to rectify this issue for them. As much as it sucks, these things happen as growing pains for a new product, and even just mistakes on established products but as i've said we work really hard to make sure everything gets rectified.
Flywheel cover (I think all 57 who bought a pan bought the flywheel cover as well, 3 people mentioned an issue): The second issue about the flywheel cover perplexes me. We mounted the same cover up on Josserman's car and it worked fine. When that part was being designed our machinist stated a concern about how far the flywheel cover stuck out so that was checked. Now there could be a few things at play here. The first is if he has a different clutch or flywheel or even possibly both, that could be affecting how far that sticks out. The second is if the transmissions or trans tunnels vary. He is the first to state this concern and i'm sure that others have mounted these without issue just like we had. Obviously this is an issue in the thread because now everyone is second guessing it. While it is admittedly not a a pretty piece it was really just a secondary piece that was needed to go with the pan. I can assure you though it was not an after thought. (my underline) The goal was to make it as inexpensive as possible. One person stated in the thread that he would have preferred to pay more and have it as one piece. While that would have been niece we really had to think about not only being cost effective to be able to bring this to market at a good price but that would have been another piece that would have had to been welded on. This presents two issues. The first being that if the piece is off the pan is essentially not good. With the separate flywheel we can just fix that itself. The second issue is that the more welding the more heat is needed and the more it distorts things obviously this creates issues with fitment and product structure.
Let me know if anything else happens in the thread. I really want to answer all questions open and honestly so that this does not become a product killer. I still think that this product is an amazing upgrade to the other market offerings and the performance will outshine the growing pains with fitment.
Remember we had 57 sales, we've had issue with 4 people only as far as I can discern.
I'm not going to go over the windage tray. We knew it was an issue for some due to Honda's tolerances, and it's not really a needed item with the Canton tray. Enough said.
Pickup head: one person thought they had a problem until they lined up the tray perfectly, on person trimmed a little of the baffle directly around the pickup head
Antislosh plate: 2 people trimmed the very front pointy edges
Flywheel: 3 people had problems with it clearing the cover Canton fabricated. None were AP1's OEM. One was aftermarket clutch AP1, One was AP2 (unknown if OE or aftermarket), one was unknown if AP1 or AP2. He hasn't said. Interestingly, one person had an AP2, but was ok on clearance.
So, although not everyone has installed yet, 4 people with issues is not bad for a race car part.
Trimming the anti slosh plate slightly to provide clearance couldn't be easier. If the flywheel cover touches, run it without, or with spacers. Many race and street cars run without one.
As far as I'm concerned guys, despite these minor issues, this is a great product and beats the HELL out of anything else on the market.
Here's some comments from Canton:
Oil pickup (one guy had to trim, no other mentions
The issue about the baffle hitting the pump is could be our fault. Everything gets block fit on our block with the pump we have but that doesn't mean there isn't a different casting or something that changes from here to there. Not sure what changed from one pan to the next or even one pump to the next but I didn't think we made that part that tight, so I can't say I was anticipating that issue. With that said, Bob and I fight the customers battles pretty well here to make sure we deliver, and had this been an issue for someone that didn't have the ability to fix it we would have made sure to rectify this issue for them. As much as it sucks, these things happen as growing pains for a new product, and even just mistakes on established products but as i've said we work really hard to make sure everything gets rectified. Flywheel cover (I think all 57 who bought a pan bought the flywheel cover as well, 3 people mentioned an issue): The second issue about the flywheel cover perplexes me. We mounted the same cover up on Josserman's car and it worked fine. When that part was being designed our machinist stated a concern about how far the flywheel cover stuck out so that was checked. Now there could be a few things at play here. The first is if he has a different clutch or flywheel or even possibly both, that could be affecting how far that sticks out. The second is if the transmissions or trans tunnels vary. He is the first to state this concern and i'm sure that others have mounted these without issue just like we had. Obviously this is an issue in the thread because now everyone is second guessing it. While it is admittedly not a a pretty piece it was really just a secondary piece that was needed to go with the pan. I can assure you though it was not an after thought. (my underline) The goal was to make it as inexpensive as possible. One person stated in the thread that he would have preferred to pay more and have it as one piece. While that would have been niece we really had to think about not only being cost effective to be able to bring this to market at a good price but that would have been another piece that would have had to been welded on. This presents two issues. The first being that if the piece is off the pan is essentially not good. With the separate flywheel we can just fix that itself. The second issue is that the more welding the more heat is needed and the more it distorts things obviously this creates issues with fitment and product structure.
Let me know if anything else happens in the thread. I really want to answer all questions open and honestly so that this does not become a product killer. I still think that this product is an amazing upgrade to the other market offerings and the performance will outshine the growing pains with fitment.
07-06-2014, 04:35 PM
#83
Everyone that is whining and complaining about what "should have" is exactly why there aren't many companies left that are willing to take a risk on producing parts for cars.
It costs too much but it should have been tested more and it should have been built better and you should have got it sooner...
These aren't OEM Honda parts; they are race car parts. Some modification and assembly required is assumed if you have been in the game longer than breakfast.
It costs too much but it should have been tested more and it should have been built better and you should have got it sooner...
These aren't OEM Honda parts; they are race car parts. Some modification and assembly required is assumed if you have been in the game longer than breakfast.
Manufacturers look at the risks involved, how much it will cost, will it work for everyone, how can we test it, and how are we going to get bashed if something doesn't work perfectly? One little problem for one part on some cars but not others, can cost manufacturers huge amounts of money for all the other products they sell.
People really don't understand how much damage they can do by just posting up stuff like that. As you've seen on the forum there are now several guys that are not going to put their pans on now. What this does is makes manufacturers less than excited to venture into new markets. The power of social media has just exploded in recent years, for good and bad. We must be responsible in how we use it, if in the end run, we want these products to come out.
07-06-2014, 04:37 PM
#84
I'm gonna wait a bit too - i'm still on street tires as well. I don't plan on moving much farther than that, maybe NT-01 at some point in the future. I'm also planning on ditching my wing soon.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
07-06-2014, 04:45 PM
#85
I have an MY06 with AP1 flywheel and did not have issues with the flywheel cover plate. Nor did I have issues with the pickup (I didnt reinstall the OEM girdle)
In my opinion I think we (Canton & consumers) are equally guilty. Bad on Canton for not test fitting the pans on more than 2 motors before releasing to public and bad on us for expecting a perfect pan. We all knew Canton had 1 block to work with and 1 car to test fit it on, this is not new news. Consider ourselves lucky we at least got these 2 specimens to play with. As stated before, there are unknowns in building a new product and great risk hoping there won't be any findings/observations once the product releases market. We should set our expectations appropriately for where this pan is in its development life cycle.
Personally, I had no issues installing the pan on my AP2 and quite pleased with the overall fitment. It could've turned out much much worse. One perfect example - remember the Avid motor mounts? I was one of the first to purchase these and was a test mule for several months. The damn thing didn't even bolt up. It was complete crap, useless and waste of my time.
I do appreciate the knowledge sharing - helps build a better product and keeps us aware or issues during install
In my opinion I think we (Canton & consumers) are equally guilty. Bad on Canton for not test fitting the pans on more than 2 motors before releasing to public and bad on us for expecting a perfect pan. We all knew Canton had 1 block to work with and 1 car to test fit it on, this is not new news. Consider ourselves lucky we at least got these 2 specimens to play with. As stated before, there are unknowns in building a new product and great risk hoping there won't be any findings/observations once the product releases market. We should set our expectations appropriately for where this pan is in its development life cycle.
Personally, I had no issues installing the pan on my AP2 and quite pleased with the overall fitment. It could've turned out much much worse. One perfect example - remember the Avid motor mounts? I was one of the first to purchase these and was a test mule for several months. The damn thing didn't even bolt up. It was complete crap, useless and waste of my time.
I do appreciate the knowledge sharing - helps build a better product and keeps us aware or issues during install
I'm of the same thought process as 99SH. Canton could've done a little more but people expecting perfection and OEM fitment are being unrealistic in their expectations. All things considered the fitment issues sound minor. Good to hear it fit on your '06. Gives me hope. Im running an F1 racing flywheel, so we'll see how it fits. Hopefully in about another month I'll get some time to really work on the car and I'll install the pan. 
07-06-2014, 04:57 PM
#86
Easy way to tell if the pan is the issue or different castings/parts/etc. Cross-reference part numbers. I'm more prone to go with the pan being off and not the Honda part. Just like the one-piece and it being off causing the pan to be useless. Honda made a pretty good piece to set up a jig to, IMHO.
I've purchased countless "race" parts through the years... Many of them fit just fine.
No offense guys, but waiting won't make anything change, give it a go and see what happens.
I have not desire to pull the OEM pan with a good chance of having to put it back on. Time is not something I have to waste.
I've purchased countless "race" parts through the years... Many of them fit just fine.
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO' timestamp='1404339955' post='23227829
This is very disappointing. I'm a bit hesitant to install mine even more now.
Is flywheel cover supposed to be spaced out like that? It looks terrible and won't block any water from getting in.
Is flywheel cover supposed to be spaced out like that? It looks terrible and won't block any water from getting in.
I'm gonna wait a bit too - i'm still on street tires as well. I don't plan on moving much farther than that, maybe NT-01 at some point in the future. I'm also planning on ditching my wing soon.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
07-06-2014, 05:19 PM
#87
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO' timestamp='1404339955' post='23227829
This is very disappointing. I'm a bit hesitant to install mine even more now.
Is flywheel cover supposed to be spaced out like that? It looks terrible and won't block any water from getting in.
Is flywheel cover supposed to be spaced out like that? It looks terrible and won't block any water from getting in.
I'm gonna wait a bit too - i'm still on street tires as well. I don't plan on moving much farther than that, maybe NT-01 at some point in the future. I'm also planning on ditching my wing soon.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
I'm kind of disappointed by the fly wheel cover thing. It did look kind of cheap. The car still sees 40% street use, and that might change in the future.
I'm going to remove my windage tray, and hopefully I won't see the fitment issues that both gearhead and rain h8r have seen.
) and hopefully by then we will have nice step by step guide with what exactly needs to be done to fit such "if you got an ap1 do this", "if you got a different flywheel do this" Its my only car, I cant hope to figure it out as I go, ya know?
07-06-2014, 05:35 PM
#89
hahahaha....I wouldn't even put helmets in that sentence, I've tried on many that don't "fit".