Canton pan thoughts here
07-15-2015, 07:03 AM
#381
Thanks for the measured response Slowteg about the stuff that really matters. (as an aside statement, it's interesting to note that while Moroso had apparently designed a weldin baffle a few years back, they never actually produced it (or perhaps very small quantities), because you couldn't find anybody that sold it until Moroso heard that Canton was going to produce this pan, then they put it to market)
As we all know, the problem with "problems" and social media is that the frequency of "problems" can be misunderstood. People with problems are the ones that are vocal, and it's the stuff that's gets repeated over and over, far less that the people who had successful outcomes. (90% of us had no issues). Like the guy who got a stuck dipstick. It gets repeated in posts over and over like everybody has the problem. And a couple of the most vocal guys on this thread about problems either never installed theirs or actually didn't have any big issues. Or the flywheel cover. I agree, it's just a cover. And the only way to have known about it in advance was to fit the pan to an AP2. And, there was no reason to suspect it. Anyway...
As we all know, the problem with "problems" and social media is that the frequency of "problems" can be misunderstood. People with problems are the ones that are vocal, and it's the stuff that's gets repeated over and over, far less that the people who had successful outcomes. (90% of us had no issues). Like the guy who got a stuck dipstick. It gets repeated in posts over and over like everybody has the problem. And a couple of the most vocal guys on this thread about problems either never installed theirs or actually didn't have any big issues. Or the flywheel cover. I agree, it's just a cover. And the only way to have known about it in advance was to fit the pan to an AP2. And, there was no reason to suspect it. Anyway...
Quote me on this for later, but more of you will have issues as time goes by... By design.
Maybe Moroso knew what the outcome was going to be already and found a good time to enter the market 
.The point I was trying to make about the head welder being in the hospital, and the guy who did it doing a poor job was that most of these issues were caused by the welding. Any broken welds, leaking welds, the levelness of the rail for mounting, the exact placement of the A/C bracket, and the clearance issues with the pickup head and the dipstick. All welding. The clearance between parts is so tight that for example the baffle inside being off placement by just a couple millimeters will cause the dipstick and pickup head to hit something.
I'm of course not saying it's ok it happened, but most all of that stuff can be blamed on one guy. And it's not like when somebody is looking over the pan before shipment that they can spot the anti slosh plate shifted by 1-2mm. But that's all it took to cause the problem.
I'm not sure why you'd be kept in the loop outside of the group buy.
07-15-2015, 08:14 AM
#383
You know, I haven't been wrong about this pan. The one I purchased and did not install did not properly fit for the guy who purchased it from me. He had to break out the Dremel to get it to clear the pickup.
07-15-2015, 09:34 AM
#386
Registered User
As we all know, the problem with "problems" and social media is that the frequency of "problems" can be misunderstood. People with problems are the ones that are vocal, and it's the stuff that's gets repeated over and over, far less that the people who had successful outcomes. (90% of us had no issues). Like the guy who got a stuck dipstick. It gets repeated in posts over and over like everybody has the problem. And a couple of the most vocal guys on this thread about problems either never installed theirs or actually didn't have any big issues. Or the flywheel cover. I agree, it's just a cover. And the only way to have known about it in advance was to fit the pan to an AP2. And, there was no reason to suspect it. Anyway...
The point I was trying to make about the head welder being in the hospital, and the guy who did it doing a poor job was that most of these issues were caused by the welding. Any broken welds, leaking welds, the levelness of the rail for mounting, the exact placement of the A/C bracket, and the clearance issues with the pickup head and the dipstick. All welding. The clearance between parts is so tight that for example the baffle inside being off placement by just a couple millimeters will cause the dipstick and pickup head to hit something.
The point I was trying to make about the head welder being in the hospital, and the guy who did it doing a poor job was that most of these issues were caused by the welding. Any broken welds, leaking welds, the levelness of the rail for mounting, the exact placement of the A/C bracket, and the clearance issues with the pickup head and the dipstick. All welding. The clearance between parts is so tight that for example the baffle inside being off placement by just a couple millimeters will cause the dipstick and pickup head to hit something.
However, I agree with yamahaSHO that the issue of my A/C bracket causing the pan to crack/leak isn't a welding issue. From how I see it, it's a QUALITY CONTROL issue where the jig they used is too sloppy or inaccurate to place the bosses in the right place, which causes the tension that cracked the pan.
The issue of the dipstick getting stuck? Mine did it as well, although not so badly that it resulted in the OEM dipstick breaking in removing it. This points to insufficient R&D and real-world testing of the product. IMO, it's inexcusable to have overlooked this detail when it's a RACING PAN. This isn't a product designed for the average consumer, who can barely remember to have their oil changed on a regular basis and never touches any part of their car other than the steering wheel, the driver's door handle, and the gas cap. I don't know about you guys, but I check my oil level after EVERY DAMN SESSION on track (not because of oil consumption, but because of oil being diverted into the catch can). The proper operation of the dipstick is important to oil pan testing.
The oil actually being hotter than with the OEM pan due to loss of cooling? Maybe for some of Canton's customers, who may be drag-race oriented, there's no need to sweat this detail. But for a ROAD RACE application, it's absolutely essential to have considered and tested that.
If they didn't test oil temps with their pan vs the OEM pan, well, that's again a sign that Canton does things halfassedly and doesn't follow a rigorous design and R&D process for introducing a product for racing applications (this IS a company that sells a pressure drop-activated engine oil reservoir, right? So they're supposed to be in tune with the demands of road course driving?).
If Canton DID test their pan during the R&D phase, found that oil temps were measurably higher than with the OEM pan, and pushed the product to market as-is anyway, well...
Lastly, I've recently discovered that one of the clips that attaches the factory-installed baffle plate inside my Canton pan is broken. This is not a welding issue either (and obviously Canton doesn't produce the clips they use in-house). This failure would be the result of a clip that's either too weak by design, was improperly heat treated and brittle, or maybe the fastener that went through the clip was severely overtorqued during installation (the baffle plate is attached by Canton before the pan ships out). Sure; it's just a clip. No big deal. Or maybe it's another indication of the overall quality and attention to detail (or lack thereof) of Canton's products and production process. Please note that this broken clip is on the pan that was repaired/refurbished by Canton for the A/C bracket crack... and it has only been used on-track for half a day since coming back from Canton.
07-15-2015, 10:02 AM
#387
A couple of things to point out... Two of the guys I personally know that have had problems didn't get on the board until I got them participating. I'm sure there are more out there that have issues and aren't on here voicing themselves on the forum. As far as the dipstick problem goes, there was more than one person that had the issue, an issue that should have never been to begin with. How hard is it to design a good dipstick pass through that won't allow it to go off course?
Quote me on this for later, but more of you will have issues as time goes by... By design. Maybe Moroso knew what the outcome was going to be already and found a good time to enter the market .It's quite clear that quality control isn't on their game.
Quote me on this for later, but more of you will have issues as time goes by... By design.
Maybe Moroso knew what the outcome was going to be already and found a good time to enter the market .It's quite clear that quality control isn't on their game.
07-15-2015, 10:10 AM
#388
Thank you Vitt. I facilitated a few people getting in touch with Canton, I posted their phone number and who to contact multiple times, and encourage people to contact them multiple times. However, it seems that a lot of people just like to complain about their problems but not contact the company like you said. I assure you, Canton would do everything they can to fix any problems that anybody has.
07-15-2015, 12:04 PM
#389
Who knows anyone's reasoning for not contacting them (I have no idea how many did or didn't), however, I can't imagine anyone is expecting any sort of improvement... I mean... That worked out so well for EGbeater as he's still finding problems with his now refurbished pan which I believe was not part of the initial run to begin with. Without a revamp into a significantly better product, it's just not good and it should be known to keep people from wasting money on it.
07-15-2015, 01:12 PM
#390
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The issue of the dipstick getting stuck? Mine did it as well, although not so badly that it resulted in the OEM dipstick breaking in removing it. This points to insufficient R&D and real-world testing of the product. IMO, it's inexcusable to have overlooked this detail when it's a RACING PAN. This isn't a product designed for the average consumer, who can barely remember to have their oil changed on a regular basis and never touches any part of their car other than the steering wheel, the driver's door handle, and the gas cap. I don't know about you guys, but I check my oil level after EVERY DAMN SESSION on track (not because of oil consumption, but because of oil being diverted into the catch can). The proper operation of the dipstick is important to oil pan testing.
The oil actually being hotter than with the OEM pan due to loss of cooling? Maybe for some of Canton's customers, who may be drag-race oriented, there's no need to sweat this detail. But for a ROAD RACE application, it's absolutely essential to have considered and tested that.
If they didn't test oil temps with their pan vs the OEM pan, well, that's again a sign that Canton does things halfassedly and doesn't follow a rigorous design and R&D process for introducing a product for racing applications (this IS a company that sells a pressure drop-activated engine oil reservoir, right? So they're supposed to be in tune with the demands of road course driving?).
If Canton DID test their pan during the R&D phase, found that oil temps were measurably higher than with the OEM pan, and pushed the product to market as-is anyway, well...
The issue of the dipstick getting stuck? Mine did it as well, although not so badly that it resulted in the OEM dipstick breaking in removing it. This points to insufficient R&D and real-world testing of the product. IMO, it's inexcusable to have overlooked this detail when it's a RACING PAN. This isn't a product designed for the average consumer, who can barely remember to have their oil changed on a regular basis and never touches any part of their car other than the steering wheel, the driver's door handle, and the gas cap. I don't know about you guys, but I check my oil level after EVERY DAMN SESSION on track (not because of oil consumption, but because of oil being diverted into the catch can). The proper operation of the dipstick is important to oil pan testing.
The oil actually being hotter than with the OEM pan due to loss of cooling? Maybe for some of Canton's customers, who may be drag-race oriented, there's no need to sweat this detail. But for a ROAD RACE application, it's absolutely essential to have considered and tested that.
If they didn't test oil temps with their pan vs the OEM pan, well, that's again a sign that Canton does things halfassedly and doesn't follow a rigorous design and R&D process for introducing a product for racing applications (this IS a company that sells a pressure drop-activated engine oil reservoir, right? So they're supposed to be in tune with the demands of road course driving?).
If Canton DID test their pan during the R&D phase, found that oil temps were measurably higher than with the OEM pan, and pushed the product to market as-is anyway, well...
Regarding testing the pan before shipping them out. Well, sure, would have been nice. But, the problem is only one person was successfully able to volunteer their car for a fitment test. And there were no problems with fitment on his car. There were also no problems with his first several outings at the track. Including oil temps as far as I know. It would have been great to be able to test more cars, including an AP2, but, if they aren't around, they aren't around. Heck, if you remember, in the beginning, we were all willing to accept the testing as far as just having a bare block available. I shipped one to them, and other people helped out with the other parts. It wasn't until the end of the project that we had somebody who could actually lend their car for fitment and track time.