davidc1

I agree.

David, thank you for all of your efforts both before, during, and after - I only wish Canton had put in half of the effort that you have and continue to invest in this product.

Sadly, for all the woes and difficulties with getting the pan to fit and so on, one would at least expect it to offer superior performance. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any proof to say that it does.

Jaundice has gone through countless motors, and this pan was unable to save his last motor. It might be something about that track configuration, his driving style, and the motor itself, but this pan was no better than any other "baffle" solution out there.

I stated most of my piece earlier in the thread, and I am quite happy with my decision. If I had to do it all over again, i'm fairly certain I would have done the same thing and still supported Canton with the initial group buy and start of the project. That said, i'm not going to lie and say that they did a great job.

I'm pretty much done with Canton products in the future... Hopefully they'll learn from this in the future. Social media is not very forgiving and mistakes are much more costly and visible these days. Small companies like this cannot afford to make half-assed efforts and do half assed jobs. Either commit to a project and do it well, or don't do it at all.
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Thank you for the thanks. I appreciate it.

Regarding Jaundice and the pan...yes, sad he lost another engine. The pan though does what it's supposed to do. It reduces the chance of the pickup head sucking air by keeping more oil around it. There are many reasons you can spin or burn bearings though, the pan solves one of those reasons. But not the one that Jaundice lost a motor to. The design of the pan has been used in almost countless applications, so we know it works regardless of it's application. But again, there are other reasons bearings can fail.

I hope you reconsider your position on Canton products. Canton Racing has been around for more than 40 yrs. If the defects some of our guys had in their pans were representative of their products as a whole (including their oil coolers and Accusump), then they surely would not be in business anymore. As mentioned somewhere earlier in this or the previous thread, their normal welder that would have done this pan was in the hospital for several weeks and the guy who took over the welding and tacking for our pan apparently wasn't as accomplished.

For someone who wants a true baffled pan, it seems there are still only two alternatives. Canton and the weld in baffle. Aside from the guys who had some welding and sealing problems in our initial purchase, apparently the pan continues to be very successful. They've sold almost a hundred to date, so it's considered to be an "A" seller as far as import pans go. And as far as I know, no defects lately.

Addendum: please understand I'm not implying that's it's Ok for the these welding problems to occur, even in an initial production run. I was just identifying the probable cause of the problem.

yamahaSHO

Actually, there are not that many causes of spun bearings in a perfectly functioning motor. Most notably will be lack of oil pressure and tuning and I'm guessing the tuning hasn't changed and is not the issue. The pan fails in execution in so many areas that you cannot exactly claim that the pan is doing what it is supposed to do. I do not recall any actual testing on this with this car. All the R&D was fitment and that didn't even go well, as we've seen.


That's true, the welding isn't great, but your company shouldn't falter on this aspect if ONE guy is out of pocket. Regardless of that, the fail in this pan does not solely fall on the welding. Rails weren't flat, fitment on at least a few were not great when trying to fit the pickup through the baffle, the strengthening of the A/C mounting is poorly engineered, snags dipsticks, the flywheel cover is a joke... etc. It causes the oil to run hotter, even with an extra quart of it. I know what you're going to say... The pan isn't for cooling, it's to keep oil in the engine. I'm guessing Honda doesn't agree considering they put cooling fins on it. I know I don't want to raise my oil temperatures (and I have a cooler as well).

For anyone who still has the pan, I personally wouldn't look at it as a long term solution. We're already seeing a lot of issues with these pans and I suspect usage over time will bring out more issues. I've used Canton in the past with their Accusump. I thought the Accusump itself was pretty nice (it didn't save my motor...), however, I am in the same boat after this pan in that I won't look toward any of their products ever again. Most of their other products have competition that I trust much more. As for that pan, I bought a new OEM pan, Moroso trap door baffle, two bungs, and had everything welded in all for less than what I paid for the Canton pan. The pan fit perfectly, covered the flywheel just fine, didn't leak, didn't heat up my oil, doesn't snag the dipstick, and just works.

tsuyoshi

I've got a pan from the initial GB run as well. I hadn't gotten around to install it. Shall we consider approaching Canton in a diplomatic way re their stance on the reported defects of this project?

carrnut21

I am in the same boat. Mine has been sitting in the box since the initial group by, just been too busy to put it on. After fully reading through this thread and talking with some people in the community I decided to order a blacktrax pan. I really wanted to use the Canton pan but with all the issues (getting it to seal, fit over the windage try, flywheel cover having problems, the AC bracket cracking, dipstick getting stuck) I decided I didn't want to deal with it. I appreciate them making this product but my car is a weekend racer and see's some occasional street use, and I don't have time to constantly mess around with getting this pan to work. I am also not very mechanically inclined and the fact that the blacktrax pan is built from an OEM pan hopefully will mean it will go on and stay on.

My Canton pan is new in the box, but I definitely do not expect them to take it back, even though it would be nice. I am assuming at this point I will have to sell it for somewhat of a loss but to me it will probably be worth it, I just really don't want to spend a bunch of time fiddling around with it to get it to work. And if it were to crack or have major fitment issues I know I would be kicking myself when I am laying under the car taking it on and off a bunch of times.

Bullwings

My biggest gripe with this whole thing is that Canton was the last to the market...

Prior to Canton, the offerings were

-Mugen, Spoon, and two or three other JDM "anti-slosh" plates
-Blacktrax anti-slosh plate with proven performance on an STU winning racecar that also ran USTCC GT class with a blower
-Ballade anti-slosh plate
-Moreso weld-in baffle

There were quite a few choice to pick from with known levels of effectiveness and reliability.

Now, from a marketing standpoint, Canton comes in late to the game. What should they have done entering the market in their position? That's debateable, but this is what it looks like they did...

made a pan that:
-fits poorly (when compared to the alternative competition above)
-has poor welds that leak and break (one of the big marketing points they touted over the competition when deciding to use a steel pan - more consistent welding. I remember all sorts of discussions about welding aluminum of different grades/quality to each other and so on...)
-has inefficient cooling that raises oil temp
-requires modification to fit (windage tray removal and/or trimming of pan
-edges that aren't straight and leak because they don't mate up properly with the sealing surface
-the worst mickey mouse after thought of a fly wheel cover
-poor AC bracket fitment/measurement
-questionable longevity/reliability
-most expensive pan of the bunch

Essentially, they were last to the market, and are offering the worst fitting, most expensive, and least reliable product... did i miss something?


Had they been first to market with no other alternative options/solutions available for the s2000 back in 2003-2005 or something, I think a lot of this would have been acceptable and understandable to a certain extent, but this whole thing just looks like a half-assed attempt at a product to make a quick buck off of a bunch of "import" fanboys. It really feels like they didn't even try, and the follow up is that they don't care...

If this is considered an "A" seller/product, I'm scared of what their other non-"A" products are like.

99SH

A quick google search on Canton shows a large population of folks with leaks, cracks, weld issues across both import and domestic platforms. Sounds like a systemic issue which has not been addressed.

I've been lucky enough not to have any leaks and interested in hearing from others how Canton's customer service and response has been.

CKit

I am pretty close to ditching mine for a weld-in baffled pan.

Hasan Shaikh

I have read that the welds tend to crack and break. Do you think there is a way around it.

What is the opinion on the Mugen pan. The baffle seems to be bolted on.

SlowTeg

I posted my review of the pan w/ some pictures, but I haven't taken a good look at the pan underneath the car in a while. I've had oil coming out of my catch can that's made it under my car so I can't say if my pan is leaking or not (I don't THINK it is), since there's a coating of oil all over the place. I'm preoccupied with other things these days but I will definitely clean it up with brake cleaner one day and check for leaks.

As others said, given all the problems, the pan clearly has some problems. I get that s**t happens, but just because the main welder is out the whole operation goes down the tubes? Come on.. That's a lame excuse.

I've documented the higher oil temps which are disappointing, but after I get an oil cooler on I imagine it should be fine. If I do find it leaks, I'll probably just yank it and go w/ the moroso weld in thingy. As someone else said I'll just buy a couple bungs and have them welded in w/ the baffle and I'll have the best of both worlds.

The flywheel cover isn't a big issue, I mean it's a piece of metal that just covers the damn opening. The shoddy welds and fitment issues are the bigger problem.

davidc1

Thanks for the measured response Slowteg about the stuff that really matters. (as an aside statement, it's interesting to note that while Moroso had apparently designed a weldin baffle a few years back, they never actually produced it (or perhaps very small quantities), because you couldn't find anybody that sold it until Moroso heard that Canton was going to produce this pan, then they put it to market)

As we all know, the problem with "problems" and social media is that the frequency of "problems" can be misunderstood. People with problems are the ones that are vocal, and it's the stuff that's gets repeated over and over, far less that the people who had successful outcomes. (90% of us had no issues). Like the guy who got a stuck dipstick. It gets repeated in posts over and over like everybody has the problem. And a couple of the most vocal guys on this thread about problems either never installed theirs or actually didn't have any big issues. Or the flywheel cover. I agree, it's just a cover. And the only way to have known about it in advance was to fit the pan to an AP2. And, there was no reason to suspect it. Anyway...

The point I was trying to make about the head welder being in the hospital, and the guy who did it doing a poor job was that most of these issues were caused by the welding. Any broken welds, leaking welds, the levelness of the rail for mounting, the exact placement of the A/C bracket, and the clearance issues with the pickup head and the dipstick. All welding. The clearance between parts is so tight that for example the baffle inside being off placement by just a couple millimeters will cause the dipstick and pickup head to hit something.

I'm of course not saying it's ok it happened, but most all of that stuff can be blamed on one guy. And it's not like when somebody is looking over the pan before shipment that they can spot the anti slosh plate shifted by 1-2mm. But that's all it took to cause the problem.

This all makes sense when you consider that as far as I know, none of the 40 or so pans that have been sold since we all got ours have had any problems. Since the welder that knows what he is doing is back.