payneinthe

The trick is to do that appeal before nationals. Once it is appealed to the SEB and is published as a ruling, it then becomes binding on all future protest committees.

RED MX5

[QUOTE=PedalFaster,Jul 13 2004, 07:59 PM] to both you and RED MX5.

RED MX5

I can see that you are not the only one who misses the point entirely, something I find totally amazing, but since so many have missed it entirely, I'll spell it out in short sentences using small words.

• The S2000 problem and protest is the result of things breaking.
• The breakage is caused because the SCCA allows racing compounds in stock classes.
• Only a complete idiot thinks he can put racing compounds on his car without having other problems.
• These problems ruin the car, and cost $$$$.
• Hence, the compounds should not be allowed in stock classes (they break the cars, doe.)
• That breakage is a part of the expense that all the heroes with sticky tires and broke cars seem to be able to dismiss or ignore.
• That's stupid.
• It's also wrong for the SCCA to allow it
• This whole issue with the re-welding is the result of the SCCA allowing racing rubber (get it?).
• The right and proper fix is not more cheating with Honda's help, it's to put and end to the cheating.

Bottom line, if you want to run racing compounds, and you have to weld the car back together because of the stresses, then you BELONG in production class. Honda does us all a disservice if they support what is essentially cheating to allow the car to handle stresses that it was never designed to handle. If you want racing compounds without headaches, you have to build to production specs. That

RED MX5

[QUOTE=shaggy,Jul 13 2004, 07:23 PM]You, sir, have apparently never seen a NASCAR "Stock car."

SCCA's stock classes, while certainly not requiring the cars to be run exactly the way they came from the factory, are as close to "stock" as I've seen in ANY form of organized motorsports.

PedalFaster

3412 words. Wow.

shaggy

RED,

I apologize if my opening remark was offensive. I found the comparison to a NASCAR "stock car" so far from reality to be inflammatory. Being a club member and a supporter of R-compounds, it came across as if I owned the Titanic and someone said to me, "That ship is no more seaworthy than a brick canoe." There's so little in common between the two classes of cars that its difficult to consider the comment as sarcasm.

Regarding your commentary on the CAI modification versus the use of race rubber, I think I can share why I'm for race rubber and against the CAI. It has everything to do with enforcement.

Somehow a line needs to be drawn in the sand about which tires are legal to run and which are not. Remember that the race tires that are allowed in SCCA Solo2 Stock category are DOT approved and legal to run on the street. Its easy to draw the line at DOT approved or not DOT approved. That line is drawn by the federal government (not that they are always right.) Its much harder to draw the line between a DOT race tire and a DOT street tire. Is the line drawn between the S-03's and Toyo RA-1's? Between RA-1's and Yoko A032R's? Between the Yoko's and the Victoracer? Victoracer and V710 or A3S04? And once you draw the line today, how do you maintain that standard? How do you test new tires to determine if they are permissible?

With the CAI, its easy to determine if the part is legal or not. It either came on the car or it didn't. Simple as that. Allowing any tire that is DOT legal is the same method of easy enforcement. The tires simply is or isn't DOT approved.

As for the S2000 specific problem, many manufacturers give specific procedures to repair their automobiles in the event of an accident. Honda does not. By the letter of the rule today, if the frame of your car needs to be repaired for any reason, whether its 3 years of DOT race rubber or being T-boned in an intersection, your car is no longer legal. If Honda doesn't give a specific procedure in their manual, you can't do it. You can't straighten the frame after an accident and you can't race a bent car. You're illegal either way. This is my gripe with the letter of the rules. I believe that when the manufacturer gives no guidance about how to return a car to factory specifications (or when to total a car due to damages), any reasonable method should be allowed if the resulting configuration is within the factory specifications.

Honestly, the structural detailing of the a-arm bracket is poor. I'll go so far as to say that nearly ALL S2000 front a-arm brackets will tear free from the chassis in 10 years of highway use. The failure is a fatigue failure and I seriously doubt that highway stresses are below the infinite fatigue life threshold. It will take longer for a street driven car to fail, but it will. Same for a car that is autocrossed on street tires. Maybe you get 5 seasons on your front a-arms with street tires.

Andy H. (as of yesterday, a PE. Woohoo!)

lig

uhhh... Mr. REDMX5 -

There are medications for your condition. Until you get an Rx - take a deep breath, dude.

I really don't think that calling every one who disagrees with your viewpoint an idiot is a great way to get your message across.

And yes - I ponied up the money for some Victoracers this year. Short of seat time and instruction - the best thing ever.

We have "Street Tire" PAX classes in the PacNW for those who do not wish to run R compounds. Maybe you should see if the locals in your region feel as strongly as you do and propose a street tire class.

Elistan

For what it's worth, our local S2000 owners club has only two classes for S2000s. S2000 Street and S2000 Race. They only difference, of course, is the tires.

Our next event is the day after tomorrow. We have 4 people signed up for S2000 Race, and 10 people for S2000 Street.

Superchargers, coilovers, intakes, etc - they're all represented. The majority of the top finishers are usually the less modified cars...

RED MX5, you should come on out, especially if you still have the Miata. We'll be having 17 of them at the event. (12 on street tires, 5 on race.)

Seems like there's plenty of demand at a local level for a place for people to simply drive their street car to, turn a few laps for fun and competition with like-mided people, and drive home again...

jlucas

While I understand your comments about race rubber in "stock" classes, like others have mentioned the distinction & regulation of what is ok is the issue with that approach.

But beyond that, there is an issue with the upper a-arms, regardless of tires. That's why for 2004 Honda added 2 gussets per brkt (4 per side, 8 per car). So I'd say it's pretty, clear a service procedure is needed, even if SOLO II did not exist.

edit: for typos

Jason Saini

Wow... Red, you're really mad about this, huh?

FWIW, I race on R-compounds not only because you have to have them to win, but because they are extremely fun to drive on! I don't have a sinister plan to outspend unsuspecting autocrossers to win, and the level of drivers at the National level on R-compounds is extremely high.

It is what it is, and if there were enough people that wanted to change it, it would change. The fact of the matter is most autocrossers like it the way it is.

And as mentioned here, there are plenty of local clubs with classes for street tires, and some of them have fierce competition as well.

Don't worry, be happy!