odb812

I hadn't heard this before. Does the 660 absorb moisture quicker than the 600? How many track days do you put on RBF660 before changing it?

I'm not set on Hawk but I like the HP+'s manners on the street, their low temp bite for autocross, and how rotor friendly they are while showing minimal fade if any in 20 min sessions. I drive my car to and from events as well as on the street a little bit, so I don't want something too aggressive. Also, I'd rather not buy more expensive pads that are going to cause me to replace my rotors more often, when I can spend all that money on track time. If the HP+ pads put me in any sort of danger, like the abused OEM fluid, that would be a totally different story. But I want to throw my dollars at experience rather than parts.

The whole reason for starting this thread was because I couldn't find a good "post-mortem" on here regarding boiling brake fluid. I pretty much knew what it was when I pulled into my spot in the paddock, but others may not have. Starting a thread here will shed some light so the newer guys won't end up in the same situation. Also, I was looking for some clarification on the pad thickness comment because I had never heard that before. This weekend I saw more cars wrecked at the track than any other weekend I've been at the track and I'm lucky to not have been one of them.

rohde88

Still think you could brake less. As a momentum car, your corner speed is closer to your top speed than say, a Corvette.

takchi

I don't know the number of days on RBF660 before changing it. What I do know is RBF600 will require bleeding much sooner than RBF660. Need S2k Challenge guys to chime in!

From personal experience, full track pads will be fine on the street. OE replacement rotors are cheap and generally are wear items so cracking rotors from track use is to be expected with or without ducting (that's why spares are kind of nice to have). If you do your proper warm up and cool down, the rotors should last decently long.

I got a chance to drive a car with HP+ pads and good fluid. I was fading the brakes even after I let off the gas and slowed down using some engine braking before hitting the brakes gently. I'm not hard on brakes either so I generally don't fade my brakes as quickly as others or crack rotors as often as some.

My suggestion is to run full track pad and good fluid the get go so you don't have to worry constantly about whether your brakes will work or not.

odb812

That's interesting. I was hesitant to go with RBF600 over ATE superblue/type 200 because of it's tendency to absorb moisture quicker and thus be changed at more frequent intervals. I thought the same trend would be true with the 660. It sounds like the RBF660 is the best of both worlds.

I'm not sure why there is this discrepancy in brake fade between me and almost everyone else who has used HP+ pads. I feel that I can brake slightly harder(very slightly) but I'm within the top 95% of what the brakes on the car can do. To give you an idea, I killed the ignition twice this weekend with my knee from being thrown forward under braking. I am out with a lot of cars that are close in weight to mine but have much more tire and brake surface area. They are usually a few mph faster than me on the straight and a few mph slower than me through the curves--so they are shedding several more mph than I am--but I am getting on the brakes way later than any of them. Even later than the differential of mph shed would explain. Despite all of this, I only experience a very slight fade in a 20 min session with HP+ pads. There is no doubt that when lap times matter, I'm going with a strictly track pad. But for now I'm not losing anything in experience with the HP+ pads.

anorexicpoodle

FWIW I use the R4 pads with ATE Superblue on my S2K for street driving and at the track. I have to re-bed the R4 pads every few weeks (usually track days take care of this for me) or they start making noise.

I bleed brakes before every track day just as a precaution, plus it allows me to inspect rotor / pad wear etc.

odb812

I need to order a set of spares since I used my spares this weekend. I'll look at getting a set of R4 pads this time. I definitely want to keep trying different pads and find out for myself what's better for me. How does the R4 do cold? Does anyone use them for autocross?

anorexicpoodle

Cold the R4 still has good bite, and is fine for street use but their max bite requires a little heat so they might not be a competitive autocross pad since you are always starting cold. I run them when I do a recreational autoX but I dont compete so they do fine for me in that capacity. For full track use they are fantastic.

thomsbrain

Motul has really poor pedal feel. I'd recommend ATE if you are on a budget, Endless if you're not. Fluid is the first thing to change, even before running something other than stock pads.

Croc

had the same expirience with HP+ on my previous Miata - when overheated they have almost zero stopping power.
they always did this.
really scary stuff.
and they were quite expensive - so no more HP+ for me.

to keep brake fluid cooler you can try HARDBRAKES titanium backing plates - those things do make a difference.

rip_ej1

OP, good thing you changed out your oem fluid for the RBF600 when you did. Brake fade is not cool.

anorexicpoodle, are you running R4s all around? I currently have HT-10 (f) and HP+ (r) with a good amount of meat left. Might consider the R4s for next time.