The "Bitterman" Rollbar for the S2K
03-29-2002, 09:58 AM
#11
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dt,
I posted a snippet of the 2002 SCCA GCR which describes the roll cage for the showroom stock class. You can ignore most of the info there because it relates to roll cages, but they have a nice diagram of the main hoop on the last page (page 7) and some info on the bracing for the main hoop in section 6 (page 6).
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/56ca179/bc/...cr9R98A5QVY_AY_
My guess is that you would still need a diagnoal bar of some sort, maybe a single diagnoal from the main hoop to the passenger side mount point like the first pic here:
http://www.teammiata.com/hard-dogc.htm
It's too bad our secret compartment is in the way for a horizontal bar
Anyway, your curved bar design might not pass some inspections unless you have a diagonal brace. Any thoughts?
I posted a snippet of the 2002 SCCA GCR which describes the roll cage for the showroom stock class. You can ignore most of the info there because it relates to roll cages, but they have a nice diagram of the main hoop on the last page (page 7) and some info on the bracing for the main hoop in section 6 (page 6).
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/56ca179/bc/...cr9R98A5QVY_AY_
My guess is that you would still need a diagnoal bar of some sort, maybe a single diagnoal from the main hoop to the passenger side mount point like the first pic here:
http://www.teammiata.com/hard-dogc.htm
It's too bad our secret compartment is in the way for a horizontal bar
Anyway, your curved bar design might not pass some inspections unless you have a diagonal brace. Any thoughts?
03-29-2002, 07:45 PM
#12
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A removable diagonal bar like the one in the Lotus (Elise?) would be nice, there is some hardware that allows the cross brace to be removed and attached as needed. This is the track only version of the Lotus that was imported to the US that has this.
04-01-2002, 05:03 AM
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Nice bar Aaron!
A reminder for anyone running a roll bar in your street car (I have one in my Type R); PADDING! An exposed steel roll bar will crack your head like an egg you get into a crash. Don't think that your head will never hit it just because you can sit in the seat and move your head around and not contact it. Your belts and body will stretch and move all over the place during a crash.
On track, your helmet will protect you more effectively if your bars are padded. SCCA requires it.
A reminder for anyone running a roll bar in your street car (I have one in my Type R); PADDING! An exposed steel roll bar will crack your head like an egg you get into a crash. Don't think that your head will never hit it just because you can sit in the seat and move your head around and not contact it. Your belts and body will stretch and move all over the place during a crash.
On track, your helmet will protect you more effectively if your bars are padded. SCCA requires it.
04-01-2002, 09:24 AM
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Aaron, have you removed the plastic trim piece coming down from the top of the windshield to the dash board?? it would be interesting to connect the roll bar with bars foward through the dash that would require no cutting of the dashboard.
04-01-2002, 07:41 PM
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have some questions and want to give you all an update.
Re. padding: The bar is so high that it just touches the cloth. The only way to get padding on there is to have it cover the bottom, forward, and rearward portions of the bar, there's no room for a full wrap around on the top side. Obviously some padding could be tied on such that it covers the exposed areas and is wrapped or taped across the top of the bar with something thin so the top doesnt' get pushed up. So, I don't think padding will be a problem. Not sure what SCCA would say about that, but I think having the bar as high as possible is the best idea. For open-top racing, full wrap around padding could be put in place.
Re. the diagonal bars. I agree that putting in curved diagonal supports might weaken the bar. That's why I'm just adding a curved bar to my bar and keeping the diagonals in place! It will change the look of the bar since there will be a thinner bar dropping down about halfway down the diagonal bar which then makes a right angle turn back to the outer edge. So it will be welded in two spots. This bar does not need to be as thick as the main bars. Your thoughts on this would be welcome. The possible complaint I can see is that it will change the look of the bar. The horizontal harness support part of the bar will not be visible, just the drop down bar connecting to it.
Re. forward bars for SCCA approval. Later I will look into add-on solutions for this bar. I like the idea of designing a forward bar like the Lotus one mentioned, which bolts on to the top of the bar and runs diagonally to a bolt-on passenger floor mount, providing forward support and that is removable so passengers can get back in the car after a day of racing. More ideas on this are welcome.
UPDATE: My car goes back under the knife on Tues. April 9. When it's out of the car I'll take pictures of it, have the harness bar apparatus welded on, then take more pictures, then stick it back in my car and take some more pictures.
Obviously not everyone has to get the harness bar option, bars could be made that look just like mine does now without it. The harness bar could be an add-on or something. We'll just have to wait and see once it's done. If 10 people want the bar as it looks now, we can start making them right away, but it seems like most people want to be able to run racing seats with harnesses.
Aaron, dt
Re. padding: The bar is so high that it just touches the cloth. The only way to get padding on there is to have it cover the bottom, forward, and rearward portions of the bar, there's no room for a full wrap around on the top side. Obviously some padding could be tied on such that it covers the exposed areas and is wrapped or taped across the top of the bar with something thin so the top doesnt' get pushed up. So, I don't think padding will be a problem. Not sure what SCCA would say about that, but I think having the bar as high as possible is the best idea. For open-top racing, full wrap around padding could be put in place.
Re. the diagonal bars. I agree that putting in curved diagonal supports might weaken the bar. That's why I'm just adding a curved bar to my bar and keeping the diagonals in place! It will change the look of the bar since there will be a thinner bar dropping down about halfway down the diagonal bar which then makes a right angle turn back to the outer edge. So it will be welded in two spots. This bar does not need to be as thick as the main bars. Your thoughts on this would be welcome. The possible complaint I can see is that it will change the look of the bar. The horizontal harness support part of the bar will not be visible, just the drop down bar connecting to it.
Re. forward bars for SCCA approval. Later I will look into add-on solutions for this bar. I like the idea of designing a forward bar like the Lotus one mentioned, which bolts on to the top of the bar and runs diagonally to a bolt-on passenger floor mount, providing forward support and that is removable so passengers can get back in the car after a day of racing. More ideas on this are welcome.
UPDATE: My car goes back under the knife on Tues. April 9. When it's out of the car I'll take pictures of it, have the harness bar apparatus welded on, then take more pictures, then stick it back in my car and take some more pictures.
Obviously not everyone has to get the harness bar option, bars could be made that look just like mine does now without it. The harness bar could be an add-on or something. We'll just have to wait and see once it's done. If 10 people want the bar as it looks now, we can start making them right away, but it seems like most people want to be able to run racing seats with harnesses.
Aaron, dt
04-02-2002, 08:10 AM
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apex-r,
I've put over 4000 track miles on my car and never been bothered by flex with the S2K; before or after the rollbar installation. So... I guess I don't know the answer to your question. I would imagine it would increase since you're going from two flimsy unconnected hoops to one extremely rigid single piece. But I can't say that I've noticed any difference.
Regarding weight: I'll weigh it when it's out of the car. My guess is it adds 30-40 lbs. A small price to pay for your life .
dt
I've put over 4000 track miles on my car and never been bothered by flex with the S2K; before or after the rollbar installation. So... I guess I don't know the answer to your question. I would imagine it would increase since you're going from two flimsy unconnected hoops to one extremely rigid single piece. But I can't say that I've noticed any difference.
Regarding weight: I'll weigh it when it's out of the car. My guess is it adds 30-40 lbs. A small price to pay for your life
.dt