User 121020

I've searched around s2ki for a bit reading CR vs AP1 vs AP2 threads and there isn't a lot of input from the racing forum, so I was hoping to get some input from people who auto-x and track their S2000s - especially those who have switched from an AP1 to a CR.

I currently own an '00 silverstone S with the red/black interior, which I love. I've been auto-xing and tracking it for the last year and am constantly amazed by its potential. The car is in good shape considering the 67k miles on the chassis and hasn't had any real issues, thus far. It currently has a newer generation Saner FSB, CarboTech XP10/XP8s for track days, Direzza Star Specs for track days and will be (or would have been) getting a fresh set of 245 wide r-comps for this years SCCA A-stock competition. My favorite characteristics of the AP1 are the direct feel, oversteer, and 9k rev-limit...all of which have kept me from buying AP2s in the past.

However...I just came across the opportunity to buy a new '08 CR...which has me thinking about making the swap to the latest S2000 build. The numbers aren't much of an issue - it's a good deal, all other things (economy, job stability, etc.) considered.

So, on to the questions -

For those who made the switch, are you happy with the outcome? I'm hoping the CR still has enough of the raw feel that defined the AP1 to keep me as happy during auto-x and track events as my current ride does.

For A-stock SCCA SoloII competition, does the CR really have that much of an upper hand over an AP1? Oversteer puts a smile on my face and though I'm faster with the Saner bar installed, the OEM setup was more fun (read "challenging") to drive...at least for me. I'm assuming I'll be able to drive it at least as well as my AP1, after a little practice.

I've read the through the thread about high mileage tracked S2000 and am pleased to see that they stand up the a lot of abuse, for the most part. Unfortunately, my AP1 is my currently daily, so the CR would become my new daily after trading in my current S. Am I crazy to think the AP1 can handle dual duty for much longer? Obviously, there are tons of variables in this question...but any input would be appreciated.

Sorry for the lengthy thread...and thanks in advance for anyone who provides an ounce of input!

-Jake

Rodney

althought this year nats was won by a cr, with a ap1 right on it's heels, the courses were not up to snuff. i think for 09', since we are now on concrete, the CR will now pull away due to it's spring rates.

philstireservice

Dude !!!

patinum

FYI - There is a thread on SCCA forums concerning at least initial comparisons.

I was in the same boat you were in and I went with the CR. However, my choice was based on the poor condition of my AP1 and me wanting a new car (I purchased my AP1 used).

So far I am happy with the decision. The CR is more raw than an AP1 in terms of spring stiffness, but the neutral steer is more controllable than my old AP1.

What I found a bit frustrating about the CR the few times I autoxed it (completely stock including alignment) was what I initially perceived as understeer. Well, that is to say, it is a lot more stable than an AP1. I was very used to the back end coming around rather easily. I had the Saner bar as well, and I would compare Saner bar on least stiff to how the CR feels stock (as far as getting the back end to come around). While this annoyed me at first, I realized that this is probably more due to driving style/habits which can be adjusted for. Additionally, I'm considering going with a non-staggered setup, or adjusting alignment to get the car to be a bit more loose. So basically, I think the stability of the CR is a good thing that can be fine tuned within A-Stock rules.

At times I miss 9k rpm as well, but the added toque is more noticeable to me than the lack of revs.

I don't know if a properly prepared CR is that significantly faster than a properly set up AP1. But I do think it is easier to drive and also, imo, more fun.

One thing to consider though is the price. For the difference between what you sell your AP1 for and the purchase price of the CR, you could invest in motons, JDM BBS wheels, A6's, and have money to spare.

sirbunz

I have auto-xed many different S2000 in many different setups. I like a loose setup, that is why I was miserable in my recent AP2 when I started to get a feel for this sport. That said, please take that into consideration with my "opinion"...

I like the Ap1 in terms of smaller courses, gearing, and its ability to get in and out of tight turns in comparison to the AP2. The AP2 has more power, lateral grip, and stability. The CR has the best of both worlds IMO with the same disadvantage in gearing as the AP2 (same gearbox). The stiffer springs gave me ability to go non-staggered and it's feedback gives the driver great confidence. I can fly through many sections of a course where an AP1 would get loose and an AP2 would push/get sloppy. In the end, I still guarantee the victor will be the better driver.

As I have continually said, HPT (Nationals site) is a poor place to compare different model S2000s. The only fair comparison would be to have the same driver drive all three on many different types of surfaces, conditions, and courses. This way, said driver could get to know the cars and feel out the "little" differences. Watch the results from the Pro and Tours throughout this coming year. There are many experienced AP1, AP2, and CR drivers with good setups that will be battling it out.

Since you already have an AP1, I woud stick with and continue to develop it. Again, the difference in switching to the CR will be within driver error.

User 121020

First off - thanks for the responses, guys.

I think I've talked myself out of the deal for financial reasons and the fact that there is nothing actually wrong with my '00 S2000. It's a plane jane AP1, the trans/clutch howls like none other, and the limited 16" tire selection is irritating. But, I own it outright and it starts everyday without a complaint, even after what I put it through on the weekends. I guess I just get frustrated when I take the SCCA A-stock rules into consideration - I want to run an '03 ECU, 17" wheels, and CR springs...but that's not how it came from the factory and really won't make up for where I fall short as a driver.

So, I'm just going to stick with my original plan - seat time, A6 tires, seat time and more seat time. Hopefully, with a huge amount of preventative maintenance and a little caution, my S will survive the dual duty routine it's currently living.

With that said, there is a brand new (less than 20 miles on the odo) '08 CR sitting in a showroom in NM. It's been there quite a while and the dealer is looking to get rid of it for invoice...something like out-the-door for $33k-ish. Someone buy it so I don't!

Thanks, again.

Jake

patinum

Don't buy it for $33K-ish. I picked mine up for $26k (before ttl, no a/c or radio) and I've heard others getting similar deals given the economy. If I had to pay $33k, I'd probably still have my AP1 because, as you said, there is nothing (seriously) wrong with it and it was paid off.

User 121020

If that's the case, maybe I'll let it sit for a while longer and pick it up for around what you paid. If I can get it that low, I'd keep both of them!