Apex1.0

Definitely seems like a better move than the 02-03 processor.

Thanks to all

Now I just need to find that $99 harness.

s2000Junky

Yeah that would be a waste of time, it would do nothing for improving your midrange/broadening your power curve. If you want to take it to the next step and really dial things in, get that wideband so you can monitor/street tune your afr, and pick up an adjustable fpr so you can take advantage of lowering your vtec to its full potential (3500-4k rpm) AEM makes a good one, they are $125 and replace the stock one in the fuel rail so its an easy bolt on. No cutting of hoses/risk of leaking fuel clamps with some of the cheap units.

Set vtec as low as the afr shows a wash or just lean during transition to give you an indication of where it wants to be/where your going to make power. If you lower vtec too low, the afr will go rich and the motor will bog, between your ass and the afr reference, you should be able to dial in a smooth perfect vtec transition for your car. As mentioned its generally between 3500-4k rpm. But if you just want to bolt on and go, id recommend not going any lower then 5k rpm due to risk of lack of fuel.

sirbunz

A sniffer IF you can pick up a good read, shows .5 leaner then actual due to its pick up location so keep that in mind. A wideband sensor at the test pipe is always more accurate then a tail sniffer.

When you lower vtec of course you will run leaner, the ecu still thinks its running in primary cam and delivering that amount of fuel. This area from the new lowered vtec to the stock engagement is where the rev band will show the first signs of fuel enrichment needed, IF the current MY ecu and bolt on config isnt pig rich to begin with, sometimes the primary cam fueling is adequate for the modified engagement without any additional fuel required. I found this to be more of a case with the early ap1's. Never the less, an onboard wideband is the best way to know where your at, tune appropriately.
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Yes, about 0.5-1.0 is the typical margin we see. We use a wideband for the actual #s but use the sniffer to verify its working properly and when first calibrating the sensors to the ecu.

I see lean #s from most bolt-on mods, lowered vtec, and both. The only time I see "pig rich" is ~8-9k on 00-01s and 02-03s. Everywhere else, I see 13-14 (minus the sniffer margin of error). The improved airflow isn't picked up with our MAP sensor/system, just corrected when (hopefully) the o2 reads it.

I also agree, at minimum, something that can 1.) Lower vtec and 2.) Add some fuel to compensate is the minimal. I know this may sound annoying, but again, I would first focus on preventing oil/fuel starvation if you plan on pushing this car on course. Happy tracking!

-Marc

Apex1.0

What are the oil issues? The pick up gets washed out?

starchland

S2000junky I have to say is right on based on my experiences and have learned a lot reading his posts, and Ellier too.
I have I/h/tp/e on my00 and its still very rich w/o any fuel adjustment. Vtec lowered to 5500 and the transition is seamless.

daktruckie99

Don't take this the wrong way, but haven't you only done like 1 HPDE in your S2000? When I first started HPDE I was so much slower that I was never in the right part of the powerband, I was never in VTEC, etc. After learning how to read the cars feedback and gain so much speed, I can drive the car so much better and never worry about the powerband.

Maybe you should keep doing HPDE and defer changing up the car for a while. Spend your ECU budget on more track days.

-Mike

bgoetz

I am confused as to why everyone says you can't add fuel with a NEO? I had this discussion with the guy who will be doing my tuning, who has always done my tuning, and who has tuned hundreds if not thousands of Hondas and he insists that a Neo is + or - 50% fuel adjustment. Not arguing or debating, just confused.

bgoetz

I even asked about a FPR and he said there was no need for one.

sirbunz

Check out the threads on baffled oil pans and engine failures in relation to track days/HPDE/road racing. As others pointed out, this will depend on your level of driving experience/aggressiveness, the track, duration, etc.

User 121020

VAFCs (including the NEO) intercept the analog voltage coming from the MAP sensor, alter it based on your tune settings, and then output the modified signal to the ECU. The ECU is blind to this operation and just sees a voltage from the MAP. It doesn't know that the signal has been modified. So, it calculates the fuel and timing parameters based on this altered MAP voltage. When you lean out the mixture using a VAFC, you're fooling the ECU into thinking the manifold pressure is lower. Lower pressure intake charge = less fueling and more timing advance. If, however, you add fuel using the VAFC, the ECU is being tricked into thinking the manifold pressure is greater than it really is. Regardless of what pressure range the MAP sensor can sense, the ECU is programed for a specific range of MAP. If you enrich the mixture too much, you will generate a modified MAP voltage that is outside the range of the ECU's fuel & timing tables (probably more tables, as well). When this happens, the ECU doesn't know what to do with the out-of-range MAP voltage and will go into limp mode. If you're close to sea level, where the atmospheric pressure is near 100kPa most of the time, there isn't much head room in the fuel & timing tables. This is why many people encounter issues when trying to enrich the mixture with a VAFC system.

If your tuner doesn't understand the issue... probably best to find a new tuner.