Any simple rules of thumb for AP1 oversteer?
09-22-2005, 10:53 PM
#21
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"I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone."
Yes, indeed. You're absolutely right, as I understand it, although most non-racers will be understandably skeptical.
A touch of oversteer at the limit "loosens up" the car and will permit faster times.
This allows the driver to apply more power sooner exiting curves, flying down the subsequent straight faster than otherwise. Stable understeer restricts this early power application -- the car plows out into the wall/dirt, etc. Slight oversteer eliminates that problem, but it bites -- sometimes fatally. The problem of course is keeping the car off the wall at those limits -- easier said than done at high speeds. Have you got Juan Montoya-like "fast hands?"
At high speeds, and at the limits ... you may only get one chance to find out!
I like oversteer at lower speeds (<60 mph, say) to boot the tail around as needed, but in fast sweepers I don't like oversteer at all. I want a touch of stable understeer at speeds in excess of, say, 80 mph on the public roads. (Note that I find very few opportunities to exploit such behavior on public roads safely. What's safe? Clear sight-lines: I can clearly confirm that the road ahead is clear. You and your family are not headed towards me ... so if I lose it, the only life lost is mine, not yours and your loved ones. My first duty is to ensure YOUR safety as a fellow road user. My right to fun and joy does NOT include jeopardizing you and yours.)
Oversteer is an inherently unstable condition, especially at higher speeds. What constitutes "higher speeds" varies markedly from driver to driver -- which is why you and I cannot compete with the pros, right? The difference can be considerable!
Niki Lauda noted, "Beyzikally (strong Austrian accent here), I don't like oversteer."
No kidding! Check out his poor face -- high speed oversteer caught him out at the Nurburgring.
Or Mark Donohue some time after hitting the wall at Indy, who observed that you don't want to do that twice.
Indeed.
Yet it was Mark who "taught" me this idea through his wonderful book, "The Unfair Advantage" as I recall. Start with a slightly stable, understeering setup, and "work up" to slight oversteer as practice and comfort dictate. It's fastest ... if dangerous.
But like Jackie Ickx said, "Motor racing is dangerous. It's made that way."
Yes, indeed. You're absolutely right, as I understand it, although most non-racers will be understandably skeptical.
A touch of oversteer at the limit "loosens up" the car and will permit faster times.
This allows the driver to apply more power sooner exiting curves, flying down the subsequent straight faster than otherwise. Stable understeer restricts this early power application -- the car plows out into the wall/dirt, etc. Slight oversteer eliminates that problem, but it bites -- sometimes fatally. The problem of course is keeping the car off the wall at those limits -- easier said than done at high speeds. Have you got Juan Montoya-like "fast hands?"
At high speeds, and at the limits ... you may only get one chance to find out!
I like oversteer at lower speeds (<60 mph, say) to boot the tail around as needed, but in fast sweepers I don't like oversteer at all. I want a touch of stable understeer at speeds in excess of, say, 80 mph on the public roads. (Note that I find very few opportunities to exploit such behavior on public roads safely. What's safe? Clear sight-lines: I can clearly confirm that the road ahead is clear. You and your family are not headed towards me ... so if I lose it, the only life lost is mine, not yours and your loved ones. My first duty is to ensure YOUR safety as a fellow road user. My right to fun and joy does NOT include jeopardizing you and yours.)
Oversteer is an inherently unstable condition, especially at higher speeds. What constitutes "higher speeds" varies markedly from driver to driver -- which is why you and I cannot compete with the pros, right? The difference can be considerable!
Niki Lauda noted, "Beyzikally (strong Austrian accent here), I don't like oversteer."
No kidding! Check out his poor face -- high speed oversteer caught him out at the Nurburgring.
Or Mark Donohue some time after hitting the wall at Indy, who observed that you don't want to do that twice.
Indeed.
Yet it was Mark who "taught" me this idea through his wonderful book, "The Unfair Advantage" as I recall. Start with a slightly stable, understeering setup, and "work up" to slight oversteer as practice and comfort dictate. It's fastest ... if dangerous.
But like Jackie Ickx said, "Motor racing is dangerous. It's made that way."
09-22-2005, 11:58 PM
#22
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The S2000 rewards smooth drivers. It's not easy to drive fast like cars with a more docile character. Stabbing the throttle will leave you pointing the wrong way.
09-23-2005, 05:06 AM
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Smoothness is key. Driving smooth on the correct line will always be the fastest route. This car, more so than many others, will bite you if you arent smooth. Sudden movements = suddenly out of control.
I am autocrossing my S this weekend for the first time. I can't wait to see what it can do!
09-23-2005, 08:04 AM
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mister_two, eventually, you will need to downshift to get the absolute best times. But for now, you should be focusing on being smooth and taking the right line.
09-23-2005, 08:10 AM
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The S2000 is one of the only car's I've driven in which I can smoothly downshift to first. You have to realize though that the distance between 3rd and 2nd isn't nearly as much as between 2nd and 1st. This requires a bit more time and gas before you can complete the downshift. I am autocrossing on Sunday and I plan on using 1st and 2nd, but only if the course is super tight.
09-23-2005, 08:11 AM
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Down the road I may try downshifting, right now I just want to be competitive. Just before the next autocross I want to do a alignment, nothing crazy but an alignment more suitable for autocross. I have had the S for almost five years and this is the first year I autocrossed it. It's probably due for an alignment anyway.
09-23-2005, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wing,Sep 23 2005, 04:18 PM
My AP1, with stock tires, and only KG/MM race springs understeers like a pig. Sorry I don't buy into the oversteer theory at all.
Lift abrubtly in a turn and tell me that again.
