rlaifatt

Before you even contemplate making any changes, I suggest you first drive the car at the limit (car's or yours; auto-x or track) and make your own determinations, and don't just go by what you've heard.

mikegarrison

I agree. Take it out to a skid pad and really feel it out. Don't try to "play" on the street.

Also, if you haven't done so, check the alignment. The car likes a healthy dose of negative camber.

jguerdat

The biggest thing to understand is that, in stock condition and OEM tires (NOT replacement tires that have the supposed OEM sizing), the car is very neutral. Virtually every other street car out there has understeer dialed in - this one doesn't. That makes it very willing to oversteer which bites the folks who think they have car control due to FWD experience right in the ass. I scared myself when I first joined this board in late '00 because of all the "snap oversteer" and crash posts. It took a while since I took delivery in late November and had to wait until late April for my first autocross that the car wasn't the source of the problem.

In case you haven't noticed, non-OEM tires should be sized in 205f/245r to keep the stock stagger of ~1.5". The S02s are very wide in the rear compared to any other street 225s. That, along with alignment, makes the biggest difference in stock handling.

Note that if you go to R compound tires, you will typically find only 0.5" stagger since you end up with 225f/245r. You can use Kumhos and get the 265/45 for the rear which will help keep the stagger. Obviously, it depends on fast you decide to get competitive in the car. At this point, it's also useful to get a BIG friggin' front swaybar (Gendron or Comptech). Read the stickies at the top of this forum to get the lowdown.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, check the alignment. Many folks use the UK specs for starters which adds an additional .5 degree of negative camber to front and rear, to -1.0 front and -2.0 rear. Serious autocrossing will require more, at least in the front. Use 0 toe in the front and ~1/4" total toe-in for the rear. Again, the stickies at the top have lots of info.

Don't let the car intimidate you - learn what it will do and it will be the most amazing car you've ever driven. No, I've never driven and F40...

vroom

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mikegarrison

You can do this, yes. You don't have to do this. I'm running 205/245 RA1s right now, with stock springs, shocks, and swaybars. I find the balance in this track configuration to be the same as it is on the street.

aronparsons

The oversteer is quite manageable; I thought it would be much worse than it was. I drove a CRX in CSP for 3.5 years on Hoosiers and transitioned to this car on street tires. It only took about 2 events to figure out how to keep the rear-end from coming around every corner. As others said, smooth inputs.

Another important factor is keeping the car in the powerband. This translates to shifting more than other vehicles and not staying in 2nd the whole time. I'm not sure about others, but if I attempt to stay in 2nd the whole time I find myself whipping the rear around because I have no power to control the car. Being in 1st whenever possible improved my times tremendously. I mention this because most everyone will say "once you shift into 2nd, stay there". That may work on cars with mid-range torque, but I feel it's not applicable to the S2K.

slimjim8201

Skills and being smooth will keep the rear end in check. The fastest cars are usually the most difficult to handle.

mikegarrison

I have serious doubts that this is true. Certainly it is not true that the cars that are most difficult to handle are usually fastest.

Triple-H

[QUOTE=secretdonkey,Sep 20 2005, 03:17 PM]

slimjim8201

I agree with your second statement. However, I stand by mine as well. This is my personal opinion, so hear me out.

I put cars on a handling spectrum: at one end you have cars that easily approach their limits, and easily return from going over them. I visualize this as a long, drawn out, smooth curve with limit percentage on the x-axis and grip on the y-axis. This is a very safe end of the spectrum as things tend to happen slower and are less likely to bite you. I place my Integra GS-R at this end of the spectrum.

At the other end you have a very different behavior. The car may be easy to drive at 8/10ths but to get that last bit out of the car you have to know what you are doing. The curve is fairly smooth up to this point but then gets very sharp, very quickly. Sustaining this limit is not nearly as easy or as stable as the first condition. Also...going over the limit is much easier and much more difficult to return from. But a car with this characteristic usually has higher overall limits than a car on the other end of the spectrum, it's just that much more difficult to hold the car there. I place the S2000 closer to this end, and I place the Formula SAE car I drove all the way at this end. The stickier tires, the abrupt loss of grip upon going over the limit, and also the much higher level of overall grip.

I'm not sure if this makes any sense to anyone. I'd be much better explaining it in person with emphatic hand gestures.