124Spider

Hi,

My MY04 S2k seem to redline in fifth gear at about 125mph or a bit below. This has not been a problem up till now in my nascent track career. I spent all day yesterday at the track (how great is it to be able to run off 110 laps in one day to learn this difficult activity), and was starting to get comfortable taking the first turn (turn one at Pacific Raceways in Kent, Washington, USA for those local guys) while maintaining speed at a bit above 120mph. A few times I nudged the rev limiter, but did not shift, since I was entering the first turn and only maintaining speed, and immediately after turn one is a big, sweeping 180 degree third-gear turn.

If I ever learn to really nail the two turns entering the front straight, I suspect that I will be hitting the rev limiter in fifth with some space left in which to shift. Is there any sage advice you more experienced track guys can give me about when it makes sense to shift into sixth gear (keeping in mind the impending downshift to third), rather than just riding fifth at the limit?

Thanks.

--Mark

Triple-H

I can offer no sage like advice, I would need to see/drive the track for that

For me there are a few places at Watkins Glen that I hold right on the very edge of the rev limiter and stay in the gear I'm in, although I would like to shift. I do this because shifting would cause a weight transfer to the front as I dip into the clutch, and in this particular area - uphill esses - I can not afford to unsettle the suspension.

I have been experimenting for quite a while now short shifting into the next higher gear before I get into the tricky part of the esses so I don't have to be right on the edge of redline and can be accelerating in the higher gear instead of just maintaining speed in the lower gear. I'm still experimenting.

I think I'm onto something but more practice is required so I know exactly what you are experiencing. Trying a short shift prior to the corner may be an option. And as far as I'm concerned, downshifting from 5th to 3rd or 6th to 3rd is no big deal, if that is what is required then it is a shift you need to get comfortable with and master, just remember, don't man-handle the shift lever, let it center itself so you know you are going into 3rd and have not forced it too far left and are about to shove it into 1st... :bang:

standard63

I would also try the short-shifting idea, but that's me. At PR I find that aproaching the rev limiter thru t10 and t1 makes the car a little more twitchy, and short shifting smooths it out a bit and allows me to not worry about the next shift in a tricky part so much and just carry speed. If you are comfortable at speed at full revs, then short shifting might not seem like a good option, that's why I say it works for me. Then again I was just getting the hang of t1 the last time I was there, so in a couple of weeks I'm gonna try out my newer technique and hopefully get up more speed.

Shifting to 6 right after t1 might be a good option, then double clutch/revmatch to third for t2 staying to the outside and you should be flyin'! I don't see any problems with jumping a few gears on downshifting in the S, like said above, letting the shifter center for a second and then straight up to third. Maybe let the clutch out a little slow just to feel for sure, then go.
--JD

Tedster

I think you will eventually need to be shifting to 6th before T1.

I go through T1 at full throttle at around 125mph or so, and continue full throttle for a while after T1, in the downhill to the braking zone for T2. I can get into the low to mid 130's there before getting on the brakes. This is with a MY2000, R tires, track brake pads.

Whatever happens, you don't want to be lifting or shifting in the middle of T1! What you're doing now (holding neutral throttle) is OK, but doing that close to the rev limiter could be dangerous. If you hit the limiter, that would be bad!

Ted

124Spider

Ted,

That's a very good point I had not thought about. I'll pay a bit closer attention to make sure that I don't hit the rev limiter around that turn.

Thanks.

--Mark

rlaifatt

I'd try 6th and see if you can achieve even higher speed through the turn. I think the (false) perception of being at or near the limit is greater when you are close to redline. There might actually be more room to go before the true traction limit, and being in the higher gear can also make you smoother to maintain traction. If you shift to 6th, would you still be in VTEC?

Tedster

T1 at Pacific Raceways isn't a 'traction' turn, it's a 'confidence' turn.

As a fairly gentle turn taken around 125mph or so (in a stock-ish S2000) with a moderate hill crest in the middle of it, it shouldn't tax your tires' grip. The important thing is to not upset the car any more than the crest already does. If you lift (or hit the limiter) during the turn, there's a high probability of a very nasty spin. As you work your way up to taking it at wide open throttle, build speed on the straight to the speed you're comfortable at, then go to neutral+ throttle before turn-in until you're aligned straight at track right.

Mark, I think you should start shifting to 6th before turn-in, and if and when you feel like it, you can start upping your speed through T1. This will get you used to the shift, and used to the 6th to 3rd downshift braking for T2. You'll eventually want/need 6th anyway, and it'll be safer in the mean time.

BTW, so far I haven't needed 6th at PR in my MY2000 car, but I have maxed 5th at Spokane.

mikegarrison

I've never needed 6th at PR. Stock '02 w/ street tires.

Most of the time, I back off the throttle a bit before T1, and just do maintenance throttle from there to the braking zone of T2. I usually pick a speed of about 110-115 (indicated). I think the fastest I have noticed myself going through there at is low 120s.

Personally, I don't feel the need to push as hard as possible right there (or in T1 of Spokane, either -- I prefer to lift/brake down to about 115 before T1 in Spokane). But to each his own. As Ted says, it's a confidence turn. It's done at high speed and completely blind. There's really not much car control involved. More "driver control" than "car control", in the skills dept.

rlaifatt

Then lower RPM in 6th should help settle the nerves if it's a nerve-limited corner (IMHO as I have never been to that track). Sounds like a similar situation with turn 8 here at Willow Springs, where most could stay in 4th near or at redline, but I find it smoother and it "feels" slower when you are not at rev-limiter, even though you're probably going faster than in 4th.

Triple-H

I always encourage my students to take a higher gear when they are consistently running through a corner at or near the redline. Often people will say "but I need to be in the power there", but the funny thing is, after they start driving through the corner in a higher gear it seems more often than not there lap times go down because they end up going faster as they carry more speed because the car is not on such a hairy edge...