s2000Junky

At stock ride height on an ap1, from full suspension droop to full compression, with stock ride height being in the middle of that stroke, you actually see two toe changes throughout, going from OUT at the droop to IN as it compresses. Its actually better to drop the suspension to a point where it elevates that first toe OUT change, getting that out of the equation all together, then for the remaining full suspension stroke you can run some toe rod/bump correction adjusters (I use the Megans) and this allows you to dial back the amount of toe IN correction under the remaining amount of up stroke/compression. This tames the rear end of the ap1 drastically, allowing for a limited but more linear toe change as the suspension moves through its stroke, which makes it actually handle predictably. Obviously the other benefit of the lowering the car, allows you to dial in more negative camber for the track. 1.5-2” drop is where you want to be for the optimum range to achieve the best toe and camber range adjustment.

sublue2004

I'm building my 2004 for STR after a long absence from autocrossing, and asked the same question you are. I ended up getting the PF01's in the 17x9 +60 offset with Star Specs, on Ohlins. I have lower camber joints, and running roughly -3 camber up front and a ride height of a little over 13", I was MURDERING the fender liner and tabs. Went ahead and just had the tabs rolled and stuffed the liner back up underneath it. There is a little rubbing on the liner now, but not even loud enough to hear it. After hearing the horror stories of fenders being pulled out, I just took the "better safe than sorry" route. I don't have any rubbing on the inside, btw.

scottdh20

i have neuspeed springs(not the greatest, installed by po)at a 1.25" drop. 1.8f and 2.5r was all i culd manage to squeeze out. caster was around 6 iirc and front toe was zero and rear very near zero as i run a wing

s2000Junky

i have neuspeed springs(not the greatest, installed by po)at a 1.25" drop. 1.8f and 2.5r was all i culd manage to squeeze out. caster was around 6 iirc and front toe was zero and rear very near zero as i run a wing
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That’s why. If you dropped the car another 1/2-3/4" you would find the rest of your negative camber. Toe and caster range still possible to what you have now at the lower ride height.

IntegraR0064

I've experimented with +63 17x9 with 255/40/17.

Just roll the tabs in front. If you're 12.75" or above with typical STR spring rates and camber you can do it without rolling them and some do and go a while without major problems but a) you'll tear up your fender liners much more and b) if you hit a bump with the wheels at opposite lock you will catch the tire on the tab and rip your fender into some crazy shape...and that's not reversible. It's just two tabs you have to bend up to prevent this, don't even have to use a fender roller. Even at 13" or 13.25" it's possible to hit the tab. Just bend the tabs up.

Once those are rolled, you can comfortably do 12.75". You'll likely rub the inside of the wheels at full lock (just don't drive at full lock) and your fender liners will wear little holes and be a wear item but it's not bad.

In the rear you can really slam it without having to roll anything if you want to, lowest I've run is 12.4" but you can definitely go significantly lower than that - wouldn't recommend it though.

Xene

I've experimented with +63 17x9 with 255/40/17.

Just roll the tabs in front. If you're 12.75" or above with typical STR spring rates and camber you can do it without rolling them and some do and go a while without major problems but a) you'll tear up your fender liners much more and b) if you hit a bump with the wheels at opposite lock you will catch the tire on the tab and rip your fender into some crazy shape...and that's not reversible. It's just two tabs you have to bend up to prevent this, don't even have to use a fender roller. Even at 13" or 13.25" it's possible to hit the tab. Just bend the tabs up.

Once those are rolled, you can comfortably do 12.75". You'll likely rub the inside of the wheels at full lock (just don't drive at full lock) and your fender liners will wear little holes and be a wear item but it's not bad.

In the rear you can really slam it without having to roll anything if you want to, lowest I've run is 12.4" but you can definitely go significantly lower than that - wouldn't recommend it though.
[/quote]

Thanks for your info. Helps to get some experience from a STR competitor. I have already ordered the Enkei wheels just deciding on tire brand. I will plan on keeping the ride height at lowest of 12.75" based on your comments. For the rear height, I will most likely keep it slightly higher since under acceleration it would help level car for better balance. Unless anyone has comments about that.

solos2k

I raced half the season last year in STR with the trm' +63's at stock height with 255's. It didn't rub once.

jakellama123

chiming in with tr motorsports 17x9 +63 square with 245 ad08's all around. Did not roll my fenders or bend the tabs and I do not rub on the fenders but I do a little on the fender liners. Car sees relatively high track use (8-10 events a year) and is lowered 1.5'' from stock. Was at UK spec alignment before and am now at max camber up front

s2000Junky

I've experimented with +63 17x9 with 255/40/17.

Just roll the tabs in front. If you're 12.75" or above with typical STR spring rates and camber you can do it without rolling them and some do and go a while without major problems but a) you'll tear up your fender liners much more and b) if you hit a bump with the wheels at opposite lock you will catch the tire on the tab and rip your fender into some crazy shape...and that's not reversible. It's just two tabs you have to bend up to prevent this, don't even have to use a fender roller. Even at 13" or 13.25" it's possible to hit the tab. Just bend the tabs up.

Once those are rolled, you can comfortably do 12.75". You'll likely rub the inside of the wheels at full lock (just don't drive at full lock) and your fender liners will wear little holes and be a wear item but it's not bad.

In the rear you can really slam it without having to roll anything if you want to, lowest I've run is 12.4" but you can definitely go significantly lower than that - wouldn't recommend it though.
[/quote]

Thanks for your info. Helps to get some experience from a STR competitor. I have already ordered the Enkei wheels just deciding on tire brand. I will plan on keeping the ride height at lowest of 12.75" based on your comments. For the rear height, I will most likely keep it slightly higher since under acceleration it would help level car for better balance. Unless anyone has comments about that.
[/quote]
I track an 01 as well, with the stock sways. Running a squared set up on this year especially, is going to be a handful at speed, lots of over steer. I dont know what kind of spring rates your running, but mine are 14k and there really is no weight transfer under acceleration, not enough to compensate with a higher ride height in rear. I find a lower ride height in the rear helps stabilize the car better and just handle more balanced for me, and thats with my 255/295 stagger. I think you would benefit from keeping ride height consistent or lowering the rear slightly. I run 13" up front and 12.75" in back. Just my 02.

Chuck S

I don't have a dog in this hunt but believe Honda got it right with the staggered setup.

That's the question I was going to pose!

I recently saw a video of the S2000 on a Japanese track with a famous (I guess!) Japanese racing driver who noted a bit of Understeer is faster. And I found this explanation on another forum.-- Chuck