2006 OTC
02-08-2006, 02:14 PM
#21
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Location: Anaheim, Orange County
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Originally Posted by Nobody,Feb 8 2006, 02:42 PM
Asura: Hey, I thought you said "NEVER AGAIN" after your last 25hr stint!?!?!? Well I'd definitely take you up on that, for sure. I'll even bring the ephedra! 
If it is any of those 3, you can call my cell anytime
02-08-2006, 02:21 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Nice. Exactly what would make it easy to classify cars of different Makes/Models.
Considering we'd be parasiting our way into other clubs, though, the chances of enough cars being able to compete in 10 classes total would be out of control.
What about: Race and Street categories for:
GT2: OEM displacement 1.96-4.0, NA
GT1: FI + Displacement of 4.01L and above classes?
Visual inspection would determine Street vs. Race.
That'd be four classes total.
Awards would be given out for the fastest in class, lowest combined team laptimes and overall fastest laptimes regardless of class?
Considering we'd be parasiting our way into other clubs, though, the chances of enough cars being able to compete in 10 classes total would be out of control.
What about: Race and Street categories for:
GT2: OEM displacement 1.96-4.0, NA
GT1: FI + Displacement of 4.01L and above classes?
Visual inspection would determine Street vs. Race.
That'd be four classes total.
Awards would be given out for the fastest in class, lowest combined team laptimes and overall fastest laptimes regardless of class?
02-08-2006, 02:47 PM
#23
Administrator
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't proposing rules, just tossing out a few ideas that came to mind. Having done OTC in 04 I can say I wasn't pleased with the way the cars were classed. Here is what I mean:
I was in T3, that's the "street" class for the S2000. There was one other S2000 and 4 or 5 evo's, a 944 turbo cw racing cage. The rules? simple, street tires, no trailering. To land a 4th place in class I had to:
Strip the interior out completely except the dash (took 2 weeks to take out, 4 weeks to put back)
Buy $3000 worth of coilovers
Buy $2200 worth of wheels and borrow another set
Buy 3 full sets of street tires shaved to 4/32nds costing $1200, others spent way more
Buy a hard top for $2000
Borrow a trunk lid and wing
Borrow a front splitter
Get a hotshoe driver to drive it for me.
Now I'm all for anarchy but what the lack of rules led to was a competion to out-spend the other competitors and take the owners out of the driver's seat and replace them with hired guns. My moderately prepped S2000 with me driving would have finish near the bottom, as much as 10s off the pace of the competitors in class.
OTC didn't die from too many rules, it died from too few of them. Jack, you race in a class of one. In T3 in 04 there were 10 cars. The car that won our class spend tens of thousands of dollars to do so. Why? Who knows.
The point is that unless you class cars in a way that they can compete and unless to have rules which encourage or even force people to speak with their driving abilities and not with their wallets you will blow off all of those occational weekend drivers that OTC never attracted.
SV S2000 challenge has too many rules. The rules are designed to class the car equally removing the preperation of the cars from the equation, a false hope IMO. SCCA has a classification for cars that people use every weekend for autocross. If you stick to those classifications then you can attract the autocross drivers to the event. They have strict limitations on what they can do to their cars and they aren't going to gut and reassemble them just to do 3 track days. SCCA publishes a rule book anyone can go get and a set of allowable modifications in each class which is well known and well defined. If you deviate from those classifications you can kiss off the majority of people who might otherwise go to such as event as this.
If the goal is drive what you brung and may the faster driver win then you should classify the cars for what people are actually bringing. Stick to a one car, one driver format.
I think it's a mistake to try and come up with classifications for various cars and a new set of rules. The problem as I see it is not how many rules there are but rather how many different rule sets there are. Pick a set of rules that the majority of the participants in the widest range of possible classes already know and have prepped their cars for and you will get far more participation than if you try to devise yet another entirely new, unknown and untested set of rules and expect people to conform to. There are enough rules out there that we don't need any more.
Let's leave the rule making to those who do it best and focus our attension on promoting the event to get the largest possible turnout. If we sink into a quagmire of rule making and car classification we would distract ourselves from the actual goal at hand (unless that is to devise a set of rules and car classifications for a failed racing competition). In effect I am saying don't make rules, steal them from someone who has already gone to the trouble.
If this exercise becomes one of "how should be classify this car or what mods should be allowed in this class" I'll lose interest fast.
I was in T3, that's the "street" class for the S2000. There was one other S2000 and 4 or 5 evo's, a 944 turbo cw racing cage. The rules? simple, street tires, no trailering. To land a 4th place in class I had to:
Strip the interior out completely except the dash (took 2 weeks to take out, 4 weeks to put back)
Buy $3000 worth of coilovers
Buy $2200 worth of wheels and borrow another set
Buy 3 full sets of street tires shaved to 4/32nds costing $1200, others spent way more
Buy a hard top for $2000
Borrow a trunk lid and wing
Borrow a front splitter
Get a hotshoe driver to drive it for me.
Now I'm all for anarchy but what the lack of rules led to was a competion to out-spend the other competitors and take the owners out of the driver's seat and replace them with hired guns. My moderately prepped S2000 with me driving would have finish near the bottom, as much as 10s off the pace of the competitors in class.
OTC didn't die from too many rules, it died from too few of them. Jack, you race in a class of one. In T3 in 04 there were 10 cars. The car that won our class spend tens of thousands of dollars to do so. Why? Who knows.
The point is that unless you class cars in a way that they can compete and unless to have rules which encourage or even force people to speak with their driving abilities and not with their wallets you will blow off all of those occational weekend drivers that OTC never attracted.
SV S2000 challenge has too many rules. The rules are designed to class the car equally removing the preperation of the cars from the equation, a false hope IMO. SCCA has a classification for cars that people use every weekend for autocross. If you stick to those classifications then you can attract the autocross drivers to the event. They have strict limitations on what they can do to their cars and they aren't going to gut and reassemble them just to do 3 track days. SCCA publishes a rule book anyone can go get and a set of allowable modifications in each class which is well known and well defined. If you deviate from those classifications you can kiss off the majority of people who might otherwise go to such as event as this.
If the goal is drive what you brung and may the faster driver win then you should classify the cars for what people are actually bringing. Stick to a one car, one driver format.
I think it's a mistake to try and come up with classifications for various cars and a new set of rules. The problem as I see it is not how many rules there are but rather how many different rule sets there are. Pick a set of rules that the majority of the participants in the widest range of possible classes already know and have prepped their cars for and you will get far more participation than if you try to devise yet another entirely new, unknown and untested set of rules and expect people to conform to. There are enough rules out there that we don't need any more.
Let's leave the rule making to those who do it best and focus our attension on promoting the event to get the largest possible turnout. If we sink into a quagmire of rule making and car classification we would distract ourselves from the actual goal at hand (unless that is to devise a set of rules and car classifications for a failed racing competition). In effect I am saying don't make rules, steal them from someone who has already gone to the trouble.
If this exercise becomes one of "how should be classify this car or what mods should be allowed in this class" I'll lose interest fast.
.