2004 vs 2003 in autocross
07-29-2003, 07:12 PM
#12
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Now let's see:
Do you suppose that Honda thinks it has a car that needs more performance for the 1%'ers, and will focus on that?
Or do you suppose Honda thinks that maybe they missed the mark by not appealing to a wider range of "sporty" car enthusiast who rarely push a car to redline let alone 10/10th's handling limits rather than hard-core track hound and autocrossers?
So *I'm guessing* the S2000 is moving more towards Grand Tourer, rather than Great Racecar.
Do you suppose that Honda thinks it has a car that needs more performance for the 1%'ers, and will focus on that?
Or do you suppose Honda thinks that maybe they missed the mark by not appealing to a wider range of "sporty" car enthusiast who rarely push a car to redline let alone 10/10th's handling limits rather than hard-core track hound and autocrossers?
So *I'm guessing* the S2000 is moving more towards Grand Tourer, rather than Great Racecar.
I think pfb nailed it.
07-29-2003, 10:28 PM
#14
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Rylan, I must have made the best of breed comments after the margaritas.
There aren't any hard rules in classing cars other than the SAC/SEB doing their best (sometimes not very well, admittedly) to try and promote healthy participation in all classes. Best of breed is sometimes used to keep classing more understandable, as it isn't necessarily desirable to have a visually identical car winning a bunch of different classes. That said, there are plenty of examples where you see this "rule" violated (Boxster/Boxster S, Miata 1.8/1.6, Celicas, Integras, etc.), and in those cases the intent was still trying to promote participation.
As far as the '04 car, unless it has some real deficiences relative to the current car, I would think that *if* the wheels are wider and 17" that would be a big deal. I agree, as others have said, that Honda is probably aiming at a broader market which probably (note the many probablys) means more luxury which probably means more weight. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
From a classing standpoint, if the '04 car looks clearly faster and early data supports that, do you put it in AS? If it really is faster than the current car, do you then have S2K's winning AS and BS? Is that a bad thing (yes, unless you are an S2K fanatic
)? Do you stick it in BS, possibly relegating all of the current cars obsolete? Maybe the new car is equal to or slower than the current car so do you stick it in BS and have done with it? What about all the new 350Z and RX-8 owners that apparently have no place to play (jury's still out on that one, of course)?
Rylan, what does the crystal ball say?
-Andy
There aren't any hard rules in classing cars other than the SAC/SEB doing their best (sometimes not very well, admittedly) to try and promote healthy participation in all classes. Best of breed is sometimes used to keep classing more understandable, as it isn't necessarily desirable to have a visually identical car winning a bunch of different classes. That said, there are plenty of examples where you see this "rule" violated (Boxster/Boxster S, Miata 1.8/1.6, Celicas, Integras, etc.), and in those cases the intent was still trying to promote participation. As far as the '04 car, unless it has some real deficiences relative to the current car, I would think that *if* the wheels are wider and 17" that would be a big deal. I agree, as others have said, that Honda is probably aiming at a broader market which probably (note the many probablys) means more luxury which probably means more weight. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
From a classing standpoint, if the '04 car looks clearly faster and early data supports that, do you put it in AS? If it really is faster than the current car, do you then have S2K's winning AS and BS? Is that a bad thing (yes, unless you are an S2K fanatic
)? Do you stick it in BS, possibly relegating all of the current cars obsolete? Maybe the new car is equal to or slower than the current car so do you stick it in BS and have done with it? What about all the new 350Z and RX-8 owners that apparently have no place to play (jury's still out on that one, of course)? Rylan, what does the crystal ball say?
-Andy
07-30-2003, 06:42 AM
#15
How would the update / backdate rule apply in these scenarios? I don't pay much attention to SCCA stuff, but I'm curious if there would be any possibility that the best from each model year could be pieced together into a real bad boy.
08-28-2003, 07:52 PM
#17
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Secondhand information from Motor Trend, pulled from https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...323#post2172323:
Sounds like the motor alone won't be enough to make the '04 dramatically better than the '03-and-earlier cars. The suspension revisions and potential weight gains are the biggest known variables at this point.
Steve
A 2.2 liter four cylinder engine replaces the former 2.0 liter version. Although it produces the same 240 horses, its torque band is improved so that maximum power is achieved at 7700 rpm instead of 8300. Max torque is now 163 lb-ft at 6500 rpm. The car gets bigger 17 inch wheels, revised suspension and gearing, and new front and rear fascias and bumpers. The interior also has been freshened with added space.
Steve
08-28-2003, 09:07 PM
#18
Registered User
The 04 wheels are a full inch wider front and rear. That may be of assistance as well. The suspension geometry is also changed to reduce bump steer (so they say). The new tranny may also help things out a bit, being somewhat tighter geared (in terms of max speed in mph per gear). Third gear will be more useful and going into first will be less necessary.
Given the ability to change shocks in the stock classes, along with front sway bars, I think the larger engine, different gearing and wider wheels _may_ give the 2200 an advantage if the suspension isn't set up too softly.
UL
Given the ability to change shocks in the stock classes, along with front sway bars, I think the larger engine, different gearing and wider wheels _may_ give the 2200 an advantage if the suspension isn't set up too softly.
UL
08-29-2003, 12:00 AM
#20
Registered User
Can't reveal it, but they are wider. 8.5" in the back for sure. You'll see as soon as the press embargo is lifted. There are a few S2200's running around Torrance now, although I haven't seen a side decal (to see if it says 2200 on it).
UL
UL