PENROD

Also published in the Feb. Fast Track:

The SAC has requested member feedback
regarding the following proposal:
Effective 1/1/2005, move the Honda
S2000 ('00-'03) and Porsche Boxster ('97+)
to AS (ref. 03-791). Comment: This proposal
accompanies classing of the 2004
Honda S2000 (see Tech Bulletin below).
The SAC feels that the new S2000 should
represent an improvement over the current
car. The differential between BS and AS
now is relatively small and the '04 S2000
should be competitive in AS. This move
protects current participation in BS and
provides growth opportunity for AS. It also
provides a method for longer term ('05)
classing strategy to be possible if supported
by member comment.

Yes, requesting 'member feedback', but this is the first step to moving us all to AS. As mentioned earlier in this post, alot can, and may happen in the coming year to AS, SS, and BS with the new models coming out, so there may be some leveling of the playing field with other classification changes.

SoloII///M

FWIW, moving the '00-'03 S2000 has been discussed for quite a while. The introduction of the '04 with wider wheels and more torque made its induction to AS a foregone conclusion. And yes, it's official, it's in the newest fasttrack. The rest of us in BS are just waiting for 1/1/05 anxiously.

Yeah, it kind of stinks for owners of '00-'03 S2000s, but it really is fair to increase competition in BS. If indeed the '00-'03 gets moved next year things will get very interesting as there are 3-4 cars that could be real contenders in that class, as opposed to now - the S2000 is king.

Besides, the S2000 should have no problem competing with the C4 'Vette and the EVO (once those guys get a good reliable setup). I honestly would not worry about it.

John V
'95 M3 - WDCR SCCA BS #01

solo2racer

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SoloII///M
Yeah, it kind of stinks for owners of '00-'03 S2000s, but it really is fair to increase competition in BS.

SoloII///M

Don't get me wrong - I have no illusions that the E36 M3 will ever again be competetive at a national level in a stock class (unless it gets moved to Mullet-Sto.. I mean F-Stock as has been rumored). However, the S2k really is a "ringer" in BS just like the Z06 is a ringer in SS. It's not a very balanced class.

I do agree with you that the 350Z has the potential to be a contender with the S2k gone, but then again so does the Z4 and the RX-8... Realistically, the 350Z, Z4, E36 M3 and RX-8 are all pretty close to each other, and each has distinct advantages and disadvantages. More specifically, the RX-8 has a distinct suspension geometry advantage over the other three. The Z4 is the lightest by about 200lb but doesn't offer an LSD. The 350Z has torque on its side as well as a factory stock WIDE wheel package but is overweight. The M3 is torquey and has a stock LSD but is saddled by narrow wheels.

The point I'm trying to make is the S2000 just doesn't fit - it's ~250lb lighter than the next lightest (the Z4) with quick steering, a front suspension with excellent geometry, etc...

Then again, how long has the miata been dominating its stock class?

/Ramble

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Good points- E36 M3 probably won't be the car (remember Sipe used to run one, thought his '99 Z3 2.8 Coupe was faster than that, a 3.0 coupe would be faster still, an S52 M Coupe even more so, and he still thinks the Z4 is the pick over that) but it would be a little bit closer than it is now. Also don't forget the cars that were quicker than the E36 then (MR2T, 968) and the cars we don't know anything about yet (Mazdaspeed Miata).

While it can be frustrating when there is one car that dominates the class, you can't argue with the numbers- in the last 2 Nationals 3 of the best subscribed stock classes have been SS, BS, and ES, all of which are more or less a one car show. Perhaps because of perceived stability or maybe because it's just so much easier to be a lemming Then again, classes like GS show that diversity can be fun and work too.

Peter

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Oh BTW I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a lemming- I did run ES the year when there were 50+ of us at Nats ('02)

Peter

kenlola

I don't get it. If they moved the 04 to A stock because it is supposed to be an improvement on the 00 - 03 s2k, then why would they then consider moving the older s2ooo's into A stock next year. (has anyone autocrossed the 04 with racing tires yet, if so what kind of feedback can you give, If not how can they make a decision)

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This has really been discussed in more detail in the thread that CoralDoc linked above. The way I see it, BS is a healthy class as it is. It was the largest (stock at least) at Nats '03, and the most competitive car is not terribly hard to find or expensive. Moving the '04 to AS protects that base in the short term.

Then why would they move the 2.0l car up? I think it comes down to two different strategies going forward, and which will best serve the membership. The s2k is perceived to be the car for the class, maybe the Boxster second. Whether it is true or not, look at how many S2ks ran nats compared to anything else, just as was the case with Z06s in SS and MR2s in ES. By taking the S2000 out, you could argue that there are a number of cars that could be competitive- some old (MR2T, 968), some new (Z4, 350Z, RX8) some not even out yet (Mazdaspeed Miata). If there are enough owners of these cars who want to compete, it could actually be a good, healthy class. I think that's why it's up for member comment- to see how many people favor the current class, how many would run the new, and bring up issues of competitiveness.

As for the 2004, no one really knows yet. Look for more data after the early rounds of the National Tour.

Peter