yamahaSHO

I suspect that you are wrong. I track consistently with 6 other guys with S2ks. No one runs an accusump, no one overfills, everyone repeatedly jumps curbs, and no one has any issues. The notion that jumping a curb (if you can call what he did even that, the curb was damn near flat) can cause this type of engine damage is in my opinion, outrageous. I've never heard of such a thing on this car. The S2k is bar none one of the most reliable track cars you can get for the money, and hopping a small curb isn't going to do ANYTHING to this car. Between just the people I know personally, I'm sure we've got more than 75k track miles alone on the s2000. Including wrecks, curb hopping, countless off road excursions, yet never has a bearing gone from one of these incidents.

It's unbelievably unlikely that your engine failed for hopping a curb. That's just a coincidence, not causation. And just because no one can prove that you hopping that curb, or him going off track briefly is NOT the cause of the failure, doesn't mean there is any evidence of the contrary, that would be a logical fallacy, the burden of proof is on someone to prove that hopping the curb did cause the issue.

For URGE (or anyone) to suggest that him avoiding the accident and going off track is under any circumstance a potential cause for the engine failure is in my mind preposterous. To suggest such is clearly an attempt to divert blame, and that's what everyone here is seeing. We all see it, and we all agree it's ridiculous. This engine didn't go in 30 minute from hopping a curb. I'm not saying it went from a mis balanced crank, but the curb hopping argument has got to go, it's asinine to the Nth degree.
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^ THAT.

S2Krazy89

Funny haha

MB, not sure why you needed to go outside the UK (the center of modern motorsport) to get your engine built. There are many many well respected Honda engine builders there, Niel Brown Engineering for one.

As for the warranty, I understand that this is a racing component and usually stuff like this is not warrantied, unless you are a works team or have some kind of contract. But failing to admit fault, and/or not retrieving the engine after it has been diagnosed by another builder indicating that it was failure due to quality control or design is not a company I would want to deal with, especially in a motorsport environment.

SlowTeg

I think unfortunately people start to believe the hype. Look at the giant advertisement.. err I mean thread.. in this forum with them touting their stuff. I give them credit, they know how to advertise.

Here was their first/best advertisment that put them on the map:
http://web.archive.org/web/200609061...om/sc/faq.html

A carb legal, 400+whp w/ a cat, CARB approved, bolt on sc kit, with traction control, variable boost, flat torque curve, etc, all for around $3500 dollars (back in '00).. I understand plenty of folks on this board didn't even have their driver's license in '00, but these were some otherworldly claims at the time when you had DRAG turbo kits and people blowing up turbo hondas left and right.

Heck, I'm still waiting to purchase my kit, or even see a dyno sheet or timeslip of his "11 sec civic" w/ this kit on it.. Of course I stopped holding my breath about 12 years ago.

Vilela

This is one of the few post i did here, but i think there's some things i cant understand.

I dont give the reason to Urge or to MB, i understand both sides BUT what is the real question here?? what are we trying to do?? Judge?? find the guilty?? blame and shame on URGE?? Helping MB to get back the money??

there's 7 pages, and i still cant find the objective of everyone that had post here.

MB did what i would do if i was in his situation, aware all the other members, but the only thing i can read here is all members trying to show them knowledge and killing the image of URGE, nothing more.

I'm Urge customer and i only have good things to say about Patrick, but if i was in MB situation surely i would have the same atitude and frustation, but i think the real question here is not the engine builder, who has the fault, if is the bearings or the crank balance or something else, the real question is the WARRANTY.

Its strange that the engine had have this probleme, but everyone do mistakes even the best mechanic of the F1 world, and i repeat, in my opinion the real question here is the warranty. I dont know how both of you (Patrick and MB) talked or established the warranty before this had happened, but the real fault is there.

If Patrick said he cover all the shipping costs and he would repair the engine now matter what, he should carry the bills

BUT

If he said he dont cover the shipping and if he repair the engine after seeing it, and MB open the engine instead sending it to Patrick, i think Patrick dont have to pay anything.

In the MB side, its extremely difficult to trust Patrick, sending him the engine to be inspected, after receiving all the answers he had from Patrick, but if he wanted the bills payed he should not opened the engine and he should have sent the engine back.

Before buying a 17000 dolares engine from internet we should think about this, there's not only horsepower and races in game.

This is between them, let them solve the problem and in my opinion there's a lot of mechanic here, but not judges or lawyers. And it will not be our opinion that will change this.

The majority here are buyers, and we all think as buyers, and its easy, very easy to judge the other side, but if we were the seller? Like Gernby in this case?? I never talked to Gernby, never in my life, but i think its a shame to blame Gernby this way, saying the only thing that is in game is the money.. he is seller, but one day he was a buyer. I hope the one's who blame them, will not become sellers and be in the same situation.


I dont have nothing to win here, and this answer will have its impact, but if i was URGE or Gernby partner it would have other impact, and if i was MB friend this would have another impact. What i want to say is, we need to be imparcial.

IF MB has reason he still dont will get back its 17000 dolares (i cant even think if was me), BUT if URGE/PAtrick has reason, he still will lose a lot of credibility and years of hard work.

Patrick can be a good guy but of course like everyone he do this for money, 17000 dolares is a lot of money, for both sides.

Sorry for my English.

Castoo

after watching the video of the customer driving the car to the pits with the oil light on was definitely disturbing. What rational behind that especially if you have a brand new engine? How much more damage was done?


I would like to see ALL 4 sets of ROD BEARINGS.........thanks

SlowTeg

Why doesn't matter, it just is. MB is merely posting his account of what happened. Others can take it however they want. So threads are allowed where posters are sitting around in a giant circle jerk praising the Chief but then any bad news and it's "close the thread" and "he's a good guy, because he loaned me a dollar once." Sorry, that's not how it works. I will apologize for coming across like a prick, but certain things should be allowed and people can decide for themselves. If you don't like it, just move on, no need to create a long post rambling on about nothing.

andrewhake

Yeah on the first page of the thread.

Something else I should have made clear in my posts. I don't think the curb hop is likely what damaged the engine, I just think it shouldn't be ruled out due to when the engine failed and should be considered. I believe it is perfectly possible to damage an engine in a scenario like this but severe bottom end damage? I didn't realize certain people were so adamant that this was exactly why the engine failed so I definitely understand some of the comments.

Something i may have missed. Why is it ruled out that the intake manifold failure isn't responsible for the damage? Once it had failed, wouldn't this have drastically altered the airflow coming into the engine? I suppose one would expect more head damage but a intake manifold failing with the car at full throttle can't be good.

In the same way it is possible to hop a curb and get unbelievably unlucky and have something fail, it seems perfectly possible for an intake manifold failure to result in catastrophic engine failure I would think.

06Estukay

I meant, any new responses since the original.

S2Krazy89

I don't think that is the case due to what broke and where it broke. It could be a separate issue, but MB already addressed that issue btw.

And if that was the case it still wouldn't be entirely MB's fault because it was a cracked manifold that they repaired and sent out knowingly. That particular runner was the one that failed so in the end where does that all lead to...? Correct, me if I'm wrong.

andrewhake

Yeah that is what I am saying. I was just surprised it was ruled out so quickly as a possible cause by both parties. Even if every thing about the engine internals were perfectly built, the manifold completely failing must have some effect.