Urge / Endyn engine failure
08-27-2014, 11:40 AM
#141
^^ They dont track hard then lol Thats a bad example.
I check my oil ALL.THE.TIME. Anyone who is fast/tracks a lot, will not just "go out and drive". The moment you put race tires on the car, things change...they change a lot. Its not being on r-comps or sticky street tires. They add a ton of extra stress on the car. This has nothing to do with this engine build/failure but I thought Id mention that your example, is just as bad.
If I had a 17k motor..you bet Id have a the proper logging/gauges..ACCUSUMP and baffle of some sort. The guys we track with have that stuff on stock motors and we do track days for shits and giggles. Not on anyones side but a lot of things are being said and basically, this thread should just be locked
Ive never blown a motor from oil..but the guy who started the Canton pan buy that you bought for piece of mind, blew his motor on a track we all go on all the time. His car was nowhere near as modded/fast as ours. Stuff happens.
I check my oil ALL.THE.TIME. Anyone who is fast/tracks a lot, will not just "go out and drive". The moment you put race tires on the car, things change...they change a lot. Its not being on r-comps or sticky street tires. They add a ton of extra stress on the car. This has nothing to do with this engine build/failure but I thought Id mention that your example, is just as bad.
If I had a 17k motor..you bet Id have a the proper logging/gauges..ACCUSUMP and baffle of some sort. The guys we track with have that stuff on stock motors and we do track days for shits and giggles. Not on anyones side but a lot of things are being said and basically, this thread should just be locked
Ive never blown a motor from oil..but the guy who started the Canton pan buy that you bought for piece of mind, blew his motor on a track we all go on all the time. His car was nowhere near as modded/fast as ours. Stuff happens.
08-27-2014, 11:54 AM
#142
^^ They dont track hard then lol Thats a bad example.
I check my oil ALL.THE.TIME. Anyone who is fast/tracks a lot, will not just "go out and drive". The moment you put race tires on the car, things change...they change a lot. Its not being on r-comps for sticky street tires. They add a ton of extra stress on the car. This has nothing to do with this engine build/failure but I thought Id mention that your example, is just as bad.
I check my oil ALL.THE.TIME. Anyone who is fast/tracks a lot, will not just "go out and drive". The moment you put race tires on the car, things change...they change a lot. Its not being on r-comps for sticky street tires. They add a ton of extra stress on the car. This has nothing to do with this engine build/failure but I thought Id mention that your example, is just as bad.
Engines don't just pop from going off course for a couple seconds, which is what was originally implied. I get that things change quite a bit for those that actually race.. but we weren't talking about actual racing, just the HPDE cup! Regarding the OP's situation, in the video it's not like he's flying through the grass in a rallycross. He coasts through the grass then gets back on the gas..
08-27-2014, 12:12 PM
#143
^^ No worries. This whole situation is a bummer and can get us fired up...
While I can agree that its unlikely, things do happen and who really knows. You mentioned in the vid he coasts...things can be deceiving. At "bus stop" on vid it looks like no bigge. We hit that curb @ 70-80 HARD. Looks like nothing but its a big hit when in the car. BUT...I dont know anyone whos blown a motor there too lol
bus stop is at 1:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzfiFBoanLM
anyway..not trying to fight or pick sides. Just throwing some things out there.
While I can agree that its unlikely, things do happen and who really knows. You mentioned in the vid he coasts...things can be deceiving. At "bus stop" on vid it looks like no bigge. We hit that curb @ 70-80 HARD. Looks like nothing but its a big hit when in the car. BUT...I dont know anyone whos blown a motor there too lol
bus stop is at 1:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzfiFBoanLM
anyway..not trying to fight or pick sides. Just throwing some things out there.
08-27-2014, 02:59 PM
#144
Member
Thread Starter
As i've said, I do not believe this kerb theory, and what is also very key is that even if it was that - the engine must be extremely delicate and not up to the job. Anyway, i'm not buying it. The extent of the bearing damage would not happen in a split second, nor the few second after. That has happened over time, albeit not a long time. A theory needs some backup behind it. I'm posting the bearing pics again just as a reminder.
I was pleased to get some info from Genrby on it, but the insinuation that i'm an 'asshole' was uncalled for. I agree on the points made by others RE Gernby's failure. I'd be interested to see some more info and pictures of the bearings though.
My bearings were analysed by Mahle's F1 analysis guy (that's the level of people my engine builder works with) and his first question was 'i'm guessing this is from a 700 bhp turbo engine?' He was shocked to hear it was from a 320hp NA engine. He nor my builder had seen a bearing so battered by fatigue. All 3 layers are gone in most places. I don't have a formal report, but what I may do is ask for a written report to satisfy the doubters.
I was pleased to get some info from Genrby on it, but the insinuation that i'm an 'asshole' was uncalled for. I agree on the points made by others RE Gernby's failure. I'd be interested to see some more info and pictures of the bearings though.
My bearings were analysed by Mahle's F1 analysis guy (that's the level of people my engine builder works with) and his first question was 'i'm guessing this is from a 700 bhp turbo engine?' He was shocked to hear it was from a 320hp NA engine. He nor my builder had seen a bearing so battered by fatigue. All 3 layers are gone in most places. I don't have a formal report, but what I may do is ask for a written report to satisfy the doubters.
08-27-2014, 03:15 PM
#145
UK Moderator
When I finally just took it to the dealership for them to check it out, they found that the main bearings were shot. They didn't mention anything about heat buildup or oil starvation, but they did ask me to show proof of my last oil change. In the end, they wound up replacing the short block under warranty. While I believed then that it was just a freak failure of the oil pump, and had nothing to do with ramping the curb, I really believe now that it had to be the curb. It makes me feel guilty that I had it repaired under warranty.
08-27-2014, 06:40 PM
#149
Member
Thread Starter
I did, but we had switched from OEM to Innovative engine mounts (75A) at the same time (which I cleared with Urge beforehand) and we put it down to the mounts.
Their approval of this was:
'Yes sir, we use Hasport but should be similar. You will feel the engine through the chassis for sure'
Their approval of this was:
'Yes sir, we use Hasport but should be similar. You will feel the engine through the chassis for sure'
08-27-2014, 08:01 PM
#150
As i've said, I do not believe this kerb theory, and what is also very key is that even if it was that - the engine must be extremely delicate and not up to the job. Anyway, i'm not buying it. The extent of the bearing damage would not happen in a split second, nor the few second after. That has happened over time, albeit not a long time. A theory needs some backup behind it. I'm posting the bearing pics again just as a reminder.
I was pleased to get some info from Genrby on it, but the insinuation that i'm an 'asshole' was uncalled for. I agree on the points made by others RE Gernby's failure. I'd be interested to see some more info and pictures of the bearings though.
My bearings were analysed by Mahle's F1 analysis guy (that's the level of people my engine builder works with) and his first question was 'i'm guessing this is from a 700 bhp turbo engine?' He was shocked to hear it was from a 320hp NA engine. He nor my builder had seen a bearing so battered by fatigue. All 3 layers are gone in most places. I don't have a formal report, but what I may do is ask for a written report to satisfy the doubters.
I was pleased to get some info from Genrby on it, but the insinuation that i'm an 'asshole' was uncalled for. I agree on the points made by others RE Gernby's failure. I'd be interested to see some more info and pictures of the bearings though.
My bearings were analysed by Mahle's F1 analysis guy (that's the level of people my engine builder works with) and his first question was 'i'm guessing this is from a 700 bhp turbo engine?' He was shocked to hear it was from a 320hp NA engine. He nor my builder had seen a bearing so battered by fatigue. All 3 layers are gone in most places. I don't have a formal report, but what I may do is ask for a written report to satisfy the doubters.
What about the crank or bearings do you think were not assembled or balanced properly? From Endyns point of view, what might they have done that would result in the bottom end failure? That doesn't really seem to be addressed yet, didn't they provide balancing information for your particular engine?
Just curious as I really have no idea.